I think we are being persuaded by the wrong people

[wild bill]

This spring I witnessed our private zoo be forced to close. The reason our governing body caved to animal rights pressure. As I read many of the threads on this forum I see the influence of animal rights on many of us here. This very concerning to me as I fear for the future of our hobby. We all like to sit back and say oh that can't happen to us. But lets face it our powers that be just love to buckle under to these groups. Their fear is that the voice of these few is the voice of all voters.
They say that proof is in the pudding look at how many movie stars now support these groups. The reason they think it makes them look compassionate and giving. What they don't know is the goal behind these groups. PETA for instance would like to see all domestic animals extinct. Their reason or logic animals should not be owned. This is where the term companion animal came from. Pet signifies ownership companion is an equal and people and animals in their minds are equal.
Over the last couple of years here I have read how some of us regard our fish or other pets. We need to be very careful what we read and believe on the internet. As humans we want to care for our pets as best we can but we must be careful on how high we place them.
So what do others think are we being steered the wrong way or do we still own our fish. When you write a comment don't be afraid to speak your mind. My self I really am worried about our hobby and the influence animal rights are having some of us.

 

[Stone Like Fish]

Mate i couldn't agree more. Its exactly the same as firearms laws. Chip, chip, chip until its all gone... "Oh, it doesn't matter, i don't shoot handguns" - ban handguns, then they move onto something that you may shoot like lever actions, well, too bad sucker, the handgun crew are gone, they're not going to fight for gun rights for the lever crew.

Same thing, different object, but it is the same. Chip away at what you can and can't own, until you're stuck with goldfish, common tetras, and then they're gone.
Should see on the fishing forums, A LOT of those people want pet fish BANNED outright due to exotic species getting into rivers (look at Florida).

This perspective comes from Australia (everything written above).

Always fight for your rights, realize when you've slipped to the wrong side. The greens and other animal rights groups are NOT your friends in fish keeping.

 

[Karl K]

Interessting point of view, i dont know if i agree a hundred procent, but definetly interessting.
Im definetly not against animal rights, but i do see that peta can be a problem regarding fishing, fishkeeping and stuff like that. I do however see exotic invasive species in Florida as a problem.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

I agree that peta are crazy, and not just "don't eat animals" crazy, proper actual crazy!!! Their complete nut jobs! However I don't see why animals shouldn't be our equals to a point - if it was only born to be eaten I don't see the problem with eating it, steak is my favorite food for Pete's sake. However why shouldn't our PETS have the same rights we do? If someone walks up and hits your kid, they can go to jail, why shouldn't this apply to cats, dogs etc? If someone tortures a person they get thrown in prison for life, why shouldn't the same laws be in place for people who torture animals? And in areas where there is laws to punish animal cruelty, why aren't the criminals punished to the same extent? It only seems fair to me..

Just my opinion.

 

[Drstrangelove]

As humans we want to care for our pets as best we can but we must be careful on how high we place them. So what do others think are we being steered the wrong way or do we still own our fish.

I thought I'd grab a couple sentences to respond to and if you feel I have taken them out of context, please feel free to explain in what manner I did.

Some of the species people keep are not being replenished nor are they being reproduced commercially. I therefore do not agree. Humans don't "own" species, the planet or nature. We live here, but we didn't create the planet and it wasn't created as our private little killing field.

Humans have willfully and selfishly exterminated enough species. If people can make a case for restricting access to certain fish because they are in fact endangered, then I'm 100% for that.

The proper response to PETA is to find ways to reproduce endangered species, not to take a position that we are humans therefore killing off other species is okay because we are "higher" than our fish. From whence does this right come?

 

[wild bill]

Drstranngelove thousands of endangered creatures are kept alive by the pet trade and zoo's. Some species do go extinct some times it can be stopped others it couldn't What I was trying to say was do we own our pets or should we sit back and let groups like PETA and the HSUS take them away.
Ebbi sadly now the punishment for animal abuse is more severe than that for crimes against humans. What stonefish stated is true these animal rights groups are all the same we can't label one crazy and not the others.
We as as a group must stick together and tread very carefully and watch what we agree with.

 

[ShadowP]

... peta are crazy, and not just "don't eat animals" crazy, proper actual crazy!!! Their complete nut jobs!

Sorry Kattiee,
PETA is not crazy... Their National Headquarters is right next door in Norfolk,Va. I've met many of their employees and members through my occupation in customer service.
In regards to their stances on prevention of cruelty to animals, I agree with them wholeheartedly, but the commonality ends abruptly right then and there.
Where they strive for ending people's ability to own pets in order to prevent cruelty, I stand on the other side of the fence and desire that people be educated on how to properly care for their charges. Neither is an easy task, but MFK greatly helps in the latter methodology.
As to PETA being crazy? Far from it! And that is what should be of concern to all of us! They are meticulous and exceedingly calculating and know how to put City Council members and other politicians on the spot and gain unthought emotional kneejerk responses to the favor of their agenda. I have seen them rally up and manage to get a 6 years plus anual fishing derby in the Hague River totally shut down based on hooking them in the mouth or throat being cruelty to the fish. It didn't matter that most of these fish would quickly be found on the dinner table. You must understand also... PETA members do not support the eating of meat either. Oh you should see their yearly push for people to eat tofu turkeys!
As to the derby... it took them a whopping four days of massive petition of the local council to get them to buckle! A few hundred activists in direct peaceful confrontation with the local politicians turned the politicians against the thousands who participated in the derby annually.
You cannot compromise with them, even in the slightest.
They do not tolerate our viewpoint and all their efforts seek their total victory.
They are not crazy nut jobs. Saying so would lead many to underestimate them. They cannot be taken lightly, as most would a crazy person.
They NEVER yield a single victory back to their opposition (us, with regards to fishkeeping). They will fight tooth and nail to keep their progress all while furthering their agenda in other arenas.
Likewise, we must take a greater and opposite stance against them, or eventually we will lose what we consider our rights to maintain beautiful aquatic environments in the home.
We have no choice but to do so, and to do so in like manner... peacefully and highly organized.

Politicians listen to the voices of the many. They always have. They always will.

 

[wild bill]

Well put Shadow I wish I could have put it that way. Might I add that social media is these groups greatest weapon now. A harmless picture and a pointed caption are becoming our undoing. It was stated long long ago united we srand divided we fall. These groups are dividing us slowly but surely. An example being JO Blow says he has a RTC in a 200 gallon tank just watch our group jump on him. The poor guy is left feeling like he should hide under a rock. Bingo another victory for the animal rights terrorists. Some may jump on me for this but what do terrorists do they put people in fear.
I have personally lived this fear and know how real it is.

 

[ragin_cajun]

"Elections have consequences". The problem is that most people don't spend any time reading the news, THINKING for themselves about policies enacted in their name, and talking to candidates for office before they get elected.

How many of us can name without looking it up their city council member, school board member, state rep, state senator, governor, us house rep, and US senators (we each have two). Can you? Try this with your neighbors next time you're talking about some news story. Very rare that I meet anyone who knows all this. I work with college graduates, I live in a pretty nice neighborhood with older people who run businesses and have kids in college. People who are old enough to know this stuff--I can forgive twenty-something college students not caring about any of this

I don't know ANYONE in my town personally who has ever attended a city council meeting. I hear people complain about taxes all the time, and I always ask them "what is your monthly federal income tax payment? Is it more or less than your house note?" I've never gotten an answer. "how much is your property tax?" "I'm not sure".

The reason why all these "special interest groups", and "activists", are successful is because they win by default. Only THEY show up to complain. You'd be SHOCKED if you knew how easy it is to scuttle a bill in your state legislature. I once saw a group of 6 concerned citizens drive to the state capital and kill a bill by doing nothing more than waiting outside the chamber until the doors open and complaining to their rep's about a blighted properties bill. 6 people causing a little embarassment to 3 state rep's, bill is dead.

 

[ragin_cajun]

Another great example of this is the "big, national" issues. Always hear about "social security and medicare spending". Lots of people have an opinion on it. NOBODY knows how it works. Nobody.

I'm 44, I'm a bit of a news junkie, and I just learned that my in-laws pay a Medicare premium every month. It comes out of their social security check. I've heard LOTS of back and forth on the news, and between politicians, about Medicare--should it be cut, should it be used to pay for new fedral healthcare programs, blah blah blah. I've even heard "people paid for it all the years they worked". I've NEVER heard retirees pay for it after they're retired, too. I was under the impression it was an "entitlement". But, it's not! It's a straight up insurance business run by the federal government.

That TOTALLY changes how I think about the program and the government's responsibility for the program. But, I didn't know the most basic facts about how the program works. I'd venture to say that the vast majority of voters who will be influenced by a national candidate's policy on the program don't know enough about how the program works to make a decision.

THAT'S the problem. There needs to be a written test required to cast a vote in this country. You have to pass a test to drive.