I think we are being persuaded by the wrong people

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Sorry skjl47 & wild bill, this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree. If someone was cruel to my cats or my fish, I'd want them to suffer the same punishment as someone who'd committed the same act towards my sister, mum, grandpa, etc. I believe that people should need licenses to keep any animal. Here in AUS we need a license to keep reptiles, this is supposed to encourage people look after them properly and discourage the 'idiots' from keeping them, if you get caught keeping reptiles without a license it'll cost you $$$$ that most 'idiots' don't have. I personally think this should be the case for all animals, and feel like the only people who would disagree are those who can't/don't look after their pets properly..

Once again, just my opinion.
 
Sorry skjl47 & wild bill, this is where we're going to have to agree to disagree. If someone was cruel to my cats or my fish, I'd want them to suffer the same punishment as someone who'd committed the same act towards my sister, mum, grandpa, etc. I believe that people should need licenses to keep any animal. Here in AUS we need a license to keep reptiles, this is supposed to encourage people look after them properly and discourage the 'idiots' from keeping them, if you get caught keeping reptiles without a license it'll cost you $$$$ that most 'idiots' don't have. I personally think this should be the case for all animals, and feel like the only people who would disagree are those who can't/don't look after their pets properly..

Once again, just my opinion.

Hello; A license to keep fish. That implies that the goverment could claim the authority to come into my home to "inspect" my setup as one extreme. More likely is another fee I will be charged with.

The notion of "look after them properly" is one of the fulcrums used. This implies that some person or group gets to set a standard of care for all of us based on a set of views. Thinking back over a number of threads in this forum alone I can recall big differences of opinion about stocking density, proper tank size and such. Having some outsider decree how I am to run my tanks is to be avoided. I do not mind learning about care issues and I have modified practices when a better way is shown to me. In the end, so far, I get to run my tanks any way I choose. So yes, we seem bound to disagree on this.

A significant difference is that I am not an advocate of forcing my point of view onto others.
 
If PETA and other groups like them had their way, you would never be able to purchase feeder fish for your other fish! What's good for the one is cruelty to the other! If any fish ever spawned or livebearer ever dropped its young, you would end up having to raise them all!!! Groups like their organizations think in the extreme! To them, there is no middle ground. It's their way or else. This means they really don't think! They're driven by emotion! And they're organized with like minded activists! In short... they're dangerous to any group they oppose.
 
If someone was cruel to my cats or my fish, I'd want them to suffer the same punishment as someone who'd committed the same act towards my sister, mum, grandpa, etc. I believe that people should need licenses to keep any animal. Here in AUS we need a license to keep reptiles, this is supposed to encourage people look after them properly and discourage the 'idiots' from keeping them, if you get caught keeping reptiles without a license it'll cost you $$$$ that most 'idiots' don't have. I personally think this should be the case for all animals, and feel like the only people who would disagree are those who can't/don't look after their pets properly.

I'm going to have disagree with you as well. I take care of my animals and I would like people to take care of their animals as well, but I don't believe in a licensing mandate. Here in the USA, while people do not need licenses to keep many animals, they are subject to animal cruelty laws none the less.

Now, in regards to human beings needing training and a license to have babies, I'm all for it ;)
 
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A license to keep fish ? Oh man do we not think government isnt big enough yet ? Im with ragin-cajun and x racer on all of this.


Except i think people are watching too much of the wrong news. The media in the us controls this country and imo has allot of weight into who gets elected. Why ? Because people are STUPID, they run with what ever the media says and never look or think that the reporter or news outlet may have an agenda. Not to sound like a conspiracy crazy but things are changing and changing fast. Ragin mentioned the health care and what not watch what happens in 2016 when Obama care fully kicks in. The problem with social security is that our gov't uses it for what ever they want meanwhile its our freaking money.

Im not into animal cruelty at all i love my pets...but they are owned not our equals....someone steals your dog its your property if it were your equal i could argue that the dog chose to live with me and likes it in my home better than yours. Of course someone who abuses an animal should be punished...but comparing this to murdering a human ? Cmon man a freakin rapist only gets a couple of years. What should they do cut deals with rapists and molesters to spend time and money prosecuting an animal cruelty case ? Well they almost always cut deal with these scumbags. But we are supposed to lose our minds over animal cruelty instead

We owe trillions of dollars in debt, have people starving on the streets, and have groups out there that care more about some endangered bug than job creation or energy independence . Neanderthals helped drive many animals to extinction should they are just starved to death instead of eat the last mammoth?
 
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Licenses don't prove anything except that a governing body can profit from something that you might desire to do! That imho is all that they have for the most part ever done. If licensing worked, there wouldn't be malpractice lawsuits against doctors, building contractors, or any other "licensed" individual or company taking shortcuts and circumventing regulations already in place to curb such illegal activity,
If you think licensing will fix it; you've got your head up your butt!
Consider the marriage license! Failure after failure after failure... and success stories too! But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with a license!
The laws are already on the books for prosecuting those cruel to animals. Licenses don't really change anything. What does a license prove that a diploma or certification of training or better business report already not do?
 
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I am a member of PETA, People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

In all seriousness, I agree with the general vibe here. A) social media is a huge weapon nowadays, HUGE. The worst part is that once something starts trending, the press is all over it and makes it a lot worse because that makes their job easier. B) People are going further and further and sticking their nose into people's business. That's what happens when you raise the bar, the next person is just going to want to raise it higher. Live and let live is not something that many people are willing to do anymore.

To say an animal should have the same rights as a human is, I'm sorry, stupid. Theres a difference between giving an animal rights and punishing a person that acts in a way that contravenes a code laid down by society. Honestly for all the people that say "We didn't have a choice, we were born into these laws and we have to follow them, no one asked me and I don't have a right to decide" to you I say go live in the woods. Seriously, go live in the woods somewhere far away from society, then you can do whatever you want. I like being a member of society, and although I don't agree with some of the rules I also can't say I follow all of them, but certainly not going to run to the media if I get caught breaking them. Protest, go vote, or just do your thing and be happy your city isn't being bombed everyday. I myself am a news junkie and I am tired of miserable oppressed first world citizens complaining about the fact that they feel they should be more entitled then the next person. I personally feel the only reason I should have something better than you is if I work harder than you, not because I complain more. It is getting worse and worse, and I agree there could come a day, maybe not too far away, that our hobby will change because someone feels they want more control. You're gonna take a fish that had a 25% survival rate in the wild that I have been feeding shrimp, smelt, expensive flipping pellets twice a day, busting my balls to upgrade systems, change water, throwing tons of money into keeping them alive and healthy, and you're gonna call that cruel?

To go on a tangent but to illustrate the example, the women's rights movement has hit a huge wall. Back in the day women have been fighting about fair wage, being able to vote, etc. Where I live women are allowed to go topless legally (which I am all for, believe me), and now we have teenagers fighting to be able to wear see-through tank tops in high schools or sports bra's as shirts in schools. This makes front page news for weeks at a time... Nothing better to fight for? Won't go into reasons why a bit of modesty is a good thing to teach the younger generation especially in light of stuff like Tinder and Jersey Shores, but the whole #MyBodyMyBusiness trend is not true when you a) make it everyones business and b) are trying to change the way men are wired while at the same time buying clothes that sole purpose is to make you look sexy (which is totally 100% fine, human sexuality is a perfectly natural thing, we ARE sexual beings, in a lot of time and places it is great that people want to walk around with some sex appeal, it keeps our population going, but not in a setting like a classroom filled with hormonal boys). The other half of women are trying to prove that they are better than men, not equal. In my eyes different does not mean unequal. Put Rhonda Rousey vs. Connor MacGreggor, do it. There are a ton of important things women do better than men, I am first to admit. But to constantly throw it out there that men are such awful creatures and women should have more rights are turning them into the bad guys they are fighting against in the first place. Women already have plenty of rights men don't have, especially in regards to children which everyone knows takes 2 to tango, but I see this going further and further in the wrong direction. And this is just one example of almost everything being taken too far nowadays.

In the end, I flipping love steak. I love bacon, I love trout. I also love my dog and my cat, and my fish to a lesser extent. If you kick my dog I will probably kick you. But in the end the dog is my property because it is also my liability. Can't have it both ways. My dog and cat teach me a lot of great lessons about life that I would be hard pressed to find elsewhere, and for this any many other reasons it should be treated with respect. However this doesn't mean it should be treated with the same capacity as a human being capable of creating novels, iPhone 6's, and find cures to diseases. There's a reason we are at the top of the food chain, and we should be honored as such. Remember that a lion will not think twice about the ethical dilemma of eating you.

[/rant]
 
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I swear people are losing there minds. Take the guy in California I think his name is Brown (governor) passed a law that that states children in all schools are allowed to use the facilities (bathrooms) of the sex they perceive themself to be. So a boy that perceives himself to be a girl is gonna use the bathroom or shower that the girls use.....cmon what the hell is going on.

Someone says something about controlling immigration and bam ! Labelled a racist. Take a look at your paycheck look at the little secrion that shows your taxes.....we are paying for all the crap
 
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