rumblesushi;555830; said:Del - don't plants consume nitrate?
yes they do, but a certain amount
they prefer the ammonium/ammonia form. nitrate levels that high will overwhelm the poor plant.
I thought water changes were important?
- Thread starter Sunpoe
- Start date
yes they do, but a certain amount
they prefer the ammonium/ammonia form. nitrate levels that high will overwhelm the poor plant.
Thanks for all the posts! 
I am glad you guys pointed out the pH swing because my friend was about to do a 50% water change after I told him how poor his water really was. I would hate to see all the fish die, even though it might be a release from all they have endured. I told him to perform a 10% water change every couple of days, I hope this is more appropriate.
On a side note, my personal theory as to why the fish have survived so long is do to their nature environment. The fish, during the dry season can be trapped in small pools for large periods of time (not 2 years but a significant period of time) which probably increased their ability to tolerate nitrogen based compounds.
Well anyway, I hope this thread doesn't encourage anyone to prolong water changes or not to do them at all. The benefits of water changes cannot be disputed.
I have to say that I really liked the comparison between water quality and smoking/oil changes. After explaining this to my friend, he actually decide to do a water change.
I am glad you guys pointed out the pH swing because my friend was about to do a 50% water change after I told him how poor his water really was. I would hate to see all the fish die, even though it might be a release from all they have endured. I told him to perform a 10% water change every couple of days, I hope this is more appropriate.
On a side note, my personal theory as to why the fish have survived so long is do to their nature environment. The fish, during the dry season can be trapped in small pools for large periods of time (not 2 years but a significant period of time) which probably increased their ability to tolerate nitrogen based compounds.
Well anyway, I hope this thread doesn't encourage anyone to prolong water changes or not to do them at all. The benefits of water changes cannot be disputed.
I have to say that I really liked the comparison between water quality and smoking/oil changes. After explaining this to my friend, he actually decide to do a water change.
vanimate;555408; said:
Bro, I have seen them and they look decent. I will be honest, I thought he was BSing at first but I have spent alot of time with him (not anything sexual
) and I know he isn't lying.
good for him the fish is alive. i can't say doing well nor doing bad since we can't see them cry out loud what they want to express.
but at least do a monthly waterchange. i do mine 2x a week even with a very busy schedule. you want to be in the hobby there are responsibilities to it. hopefully he'll spend more time in giving fresh water every month at least. and put some plants just to compensate...if it would help.
but at least do a monthly waterchange. i do mine 2x a week even with a very busy schedule. you want to be in the hobby there are responsibilities to it. hopefully he'll spend more time in giving fresh water every month at least. and put some plants just to compensate...if it would help.Sunpoe;556182; said:Thanks for all the posts!
I am glad you guys pointed out the pH swing because my friend was about to do a 50% water change after I told him how poor his water really was. I would hate to see all the fish die, even though it might be a release from all they have endured. I told him to perform a 10% water change every couple of days, I hope this is more appropriate.
On a side note, my personal theory as to why the fish have survived so long is do to their nature environment. The fish, during the dry season can be trapped in small pools for large periods of time (not 2 years but a significant period of time) which probably increased their ability to tolerate nitrogen based compounds.
Well anyway, I hope this thread doesn't encourage anyone to prolong water changes or not to do them at all. The benefits of water changes cannot be disputed.
I have to say that I really liked the comparison between water quality and smoking/oil changes. After explaining this to my friend, he actually decide to do a water change.
What if he took a few 5 gallon buckets (one for each P) and placed them all under the tank 1/2 full. Then he could do a water change that is close to 90%. After he fills the tank up, he can start a drip and start dripping the fish into the tank. Once the buckets are almost full, he can fill that tank up again with more tap (because he has lost 10 gallons of water by dripping each bucket individually) and add the fish. Test the waters first to make sure everything is equal. Also, adding a buffer such as Proper pH 6.5 to the tank well help keep it there instead of having fish swimming in soda water pH (but selzter water might even be better than what they are in now) haha
Perhaps a day late and dollar short, but I would recommend when renovating high nitrate neglected tanks, care should be taken in selecting the water that is used for make up. If the tank has been topped up for a couple of years with hard water chances are that it is well buffered and the substrate may even contain nitrate salt deposits that have precipitated out. As you replace the water with new, these minerals will dissolve out raising nitrate levels again.
Most of us will vacuum the substrate at the same time we change the water, fascinated, encouraged and even amazed by the amount of sludge that we are removing. Most of the precipitated nitrate salts will be removed by doing this with potentially disasterous results. If we add water that has significantly higher pH, the tank no longer capable of buffering pH will become markedly more alkaline. High nitrate tanks will also have higher than desired ammonia and nitite levels since beneficial bacteria metabolims are hindered by high nitrate (bio bug waste). Ammonia will move from its more benign acid form to its deadly basic form if the pH rises, causing damage to the fish's gill filaments. You know the rest. The fish can no longer properly osmo-regulate and essentially drown in their own waste. Their blood oxygen level drops, and becomes acidic as the carbon dioxide level increases. I think it would be a painful death ( the argument over fish feeling pain not withstanding).
The safest procedure would be gradual water changes limited to 10 to 20% every three or four days with surface gravel vacuuming only. THE MAKE UP WATER SHOULD HAVE THE SAME GENERAL HARDNESS AS THE TANK WITH A NEUTRAL pH until the nitrate level is brought under control. Remember that water that is high in nitrates is essentially weak nitric acid. Harder water will buffer the tank as the nitrates move back into solution and are flushed out of the tank.
Once the nitrates are lowered to below 100 ppm then gradual adjustment of the make up water hardness can be made to bring the tank in line with your species optimum prefered level. Ammonia and nitrite levels should be monitored during the rennovation to ensure that the tank bacteria population does not crash. Adding seeded media from another tank to your filter may prevent this or speed up a recovery should it happen.
The key is go slow. It took a long time to get there. Don't expect to turn it around too quickly or you risk everything.
Most of us will vacuum the substrate at the same time we change the water, fascinated, encouraged and even amazed by the amount of sludge that we are removing. Most of the precipitated nitrate salts will be removed by doing this with potentially disasterous results. If we add water that has significantly higher pH, the tank no longer capable of buffering pH will become markedly more alkaline. High nitrate tanks will also have higher than desired ammonia and nitite levels since beneficial bacteria metabolims are hindered by high nitrate (bio bug waste). Ammonia will move from its more benign acid form to its deadly basic form if the pH rises, causing damage to the fish's gill filaments. You know the rest. The fish can no longer properly osmo-regulate and essentially drown in their own waste. Their blood oxygen level drops, and becomes acidic as the carbon dioxide level increases. I think it would be a painful death ( the argument over fish feeling pain not withstanding).
The safest procedure would be gradual water changes limited to 10 to 20% every three or four days with surface gravel vacuuming only. THE MAKE UP WATER SHOULD HAVE THE SAME GENERAL HARDNESS AS THE TANK WITH A NEUTRAL pH until the nitrate level is brought under control. Remember that water that is high in nitrates is essentially weak nitric acid. Harder water will buffer the tank as the nitrates move back into solution and are flushed out of the tank.
Once the nitrates are lowered to below 100 ppm then gradual adjustment of the make up water hardness can be made to bring the tank in line with your species optimum prefered level. Ammonia and nitrite levels should be monitored during the rennovation to ensure that the tank bacteria population does not crash. Adding seeded media from another tank to your filter may prevent this or speed up a recovery should it happen.
The key is go slow. It took a long time to get there. Don't expect to turn it around too quickly or you risk everything.
Potts050;556482; said:
Thanks for the post. I'lll see if he is willing to do this, though I think he will probably do a big waterchange or leave it the way it is.
Not much else I can do but advise him.DeLgAdO;555890; said:
I highly doubt that. What kinds of negative effects would nitrate have on plants? The plants would just take longer to use it up.
