Ich Vaccine- interesting!

[Imabeast2125]

It may be good for commercial use such as pet shops, commercial breeders etc. But for a home aquarium i dont see the point seeing how it must be introduced into the tank. What would happen to a fish that was vaccinated twice...or more for that matter? I think quarantine and a careful eye should do fine.

 

[Twister]

It may be good for commercial use such as pet shops, commercial breeders etc. But for a home aquarium i dont see the point seeing how it must be introduced into the tank. What would happen to a fish that was vaccinated twice...or more for that matter? I think quarantine and a careful eye should do fine.

But there are two trains of thought with Ich. There is some evidence that Ich is present in most aquariums at small enough numbers where they can't affect the fish. Then when stress weakens the immune system of the fish (sudden temp. change, etc) the Ich is able to gain a hold on the fish. The other train of thought is the one you mentioned, where Ich can only be introduced and doesn't exist in small numbers in the aquarium. Last I heard, the fishkeeping community is still undecided on which is correct.

I agree that for most people simply using proper QT procedures, avoiding stressors, and observing the fish carefully will be enough to prevent Ich. But I see it as kind of a back-up plan I guess. When your fish are very precious, one can never be too careful

 

[Imabeast2125]

But there are two trains of thought with Ich. There is some evidence that Ich is present in most aquariums at small enough numbers where they can't affect the fish. Then when stress weakens the immune system of the fish (sudden temp. change, etc) the Ich is able to gain a hold on the fish. The other train of thought is the one you mentioned, where Ich can only be introduced and doesn't exist in small numbers in the aquarium. Last I heard, the fishkeeping community is still undecided on which is correct.

I agree that for most people simply using proper QT procedures, avoiding stressors, and observing the fish carefully will be enough to prevent Ich. But I see it as kind of a back-up plan I guess. When your fish are very precious, one can never be too careful

Touche'

 

[alexmuw]

If it's a TRUE immunization, then your fish would never get ich again, or it would get such a minor infection it wouldn't be noticeable.

I can go for something like that, since my cichlids have a lifespan of 10 years.

 

[PostalPenguin]

I would imagine that if you buy captive bred fish or fish captured by larger retailers, you would have no choice on whether the fish were vaccinated: they all would be. This is assuming they figure out a non-injection delivery system. There likely will never be a product sold at Petco that is an ich vaccine, instead everything will happen on the supplier side.

Furthermore I don't understand the whole "salt + heat" work fine so there is no need for an ich vaccine mentality. There are anti-viral drugs that reduce HIV to undetectable levels, yet we still yearn for an HIV vaccine. Chicken pox is remedied with some anti-itch meds and some chicken noodle soup. Yet we vaccinate our kids for it now. Sure these are human diseases and I am not equating a fish to a human life but the monetary impact ich has on the fish industry is not insignificant. A vaccine has the potential to eliminate ich from the aquarium trade and reduce fish loss for all parties involved.

 

[Lupin]

Salt at .3% will kill ich without stressing the fish. To salt at .3%, you first add 1 teaspoon per gallon to bring the salt up to .1%. Add another 1 teaspoon per gallon after 12 hours, and salt level is at .2%. After another 12 hours, add another 1 teaspoon per gallon. Now the salt level is at .3%. It's done incrementally like this to minimize stress on the fish and the beneficial bacteria. Maintain salt at .3% until a full seven days after you see the last ich spot drop off from the fish. This is how it's done for goldfish, and I assume it's similar for other species as well.

How much you raise the temperature will depend upon the species. For coldwater fish, raise the temp to about 80 F. For warmwater fish I am guessing you'd raise the temp to about 85 F.

Oh and it is NOT marine salt. It's freshwater aquarium salt, as sold in pet stores. You can actually use any 100% pure salt that doesn't contain any other ingredients, like anti-caking agents.

The method can be used with other fish but with catfishes and scaleless fish, I prefer to maximize to at least .2%. Dissolution remains the most important step as the grains do burn their skin as they graze around. I do have a BN pleco that tolerates .3% very well. She has survived ich a few times.

By the way, the addition of iodine is fine. You need to avoid however yellow prussiate.

I don't like the idea of vaccinations readily available to public. We've seen how bacteria and parasites eventually become immune to these chemicals. The last thing we want is ich immune to several meds despite resistance to salt already.

I don't like the idea of it available as injectables either. The last thing we want is accidentally overdosing each fish. Each fish needs to have its weight determined in proportion to proper dosage of the med. Overdosage can kill. There aren't many who can inject properly either.

 

[Twister]

The method can be used with other fish but with catfishes and scaleless fish, I prefer to maximize to at least .2%. Dissolution remains the most important step as the grains do burn their skin as they graze around. I do have a BN pleco that tolerates .3% very well. She has survived ich a few times.

By the way, the addition of iodine is fine. You need to avoid however yellow prussiate.

I don't like the idea of vaccinations readily available to public. We've seen how bacteria and parasites eventually become immune to these chemicals. The last thing we want is ich immune to several meds despite resistance to salt already.

I don't like the idea of it available as injectables either. The last thing we want is accidentally overdosing each fish. Each fish needs to have its weight determined in proportion to proper dosage of the med. Overdosage can kill. There aren't many who can inject properly either.

Hi Lupin! Thanks for clearing up some of that salting stuff for me. I mainly just have goldfish, so I wasn't totally sure how it's done with other fish. About the Ich vaccine- fish owners would not need to worry about injecting the fish if they used the "bath" method of the vaccine. I agree, vaccinating fish is not for everyone. I have never done it and would probably not try unless I absolutely had to. Like in the case of a life-saving antibiotic injection.

But I think PostalPenguin hit the nail on the head- probably everything would be done on the supplier's side.

 

[Gervahlt]

I would imagine that if you buy captive bred fish or fish captured by larger retailers, you would have no choice on whether the fish were vaccinated: they all would be. This is assuming they figure out a non-injection delivery system. There likely will never be a product sold at Petco that is an ich vaccine, instead everything will happen on the supplier side.

Furthermore I don't understand the whole "salt + heat" work fine so there is no need for an ich vaccine mentality. There are anti-viral drugs that reduce HIV to undetectable levels, yet we still yearn for an HIV vaccine. Chicken pox is remedied with some anti-itch meds and some chicken noodle soup. Yet we vaccinate our kids for it now. Sure these are human diseases and I am not equating a fish to a human life but the monetary impact ich has on the fish industry is not insignificant. A vaccine has the potential to eliminate ich from the aquarium trade and reduce fish loss for all parties involved.

Bingo. Very well said.