Ich?

[Rocksor]

Is there really consensus that heat is not enough? Most threads I read said heat and water changes can be enough.

I feel like a fool for not adding salt. However, i'm worried about my scaleless fish. I have a clown loach and an RTC. I do not want them to be at risk of death due to salt.

rtc can handle salt per thebiggerthebetter , post #4

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/adding-salt-to-rtc-tank.647540/

another person adding about 2 tablespoons per gallon of dissolved salt to a tank of clown loaches, however stating that 1 tablespoon per gallon should suffice ( if I did my math correctly)

https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/loaches-and-salt-tolerance.552111/

 

[duanes]

Although ick is present in all natural bodies of water, it usually takes a carrier of some sort to get it into your tank. Some fish you buy may have an immunity, but still be carriers (plants can be carriers). And although the immunity may work much of the time, once a tank is overwhelmed with ick protozoa, that immunity falters, with the increasing ick numbers.
The confines of a tank usually mean an epidemic, and once it is in the tank, quarantining fish, or putting them in a hospital tank is useless, as are salt dips or med baths . Because microscopic young ick will have dropped everywhere, you must treat the entire tank.
You must also treat it with either meds, or salt. Increasing heat only speeds up the ick life cycle, speeding the life cycle makes it easier to treat, because only certain stages of the ick life cycle are vulnerable to treatment. When the spots are on the fish, the fishes own slime coat protects the ick from treatment, it is only when ick is off the fish, that meds or salt will kill it.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Although ick is present in all natural bodies of water, it usually takes a carrier of some sort to get it into your tank. Some fish you buy may have an immunity, but still be carriers (plants can be carriers). And although the immunity may work much of the time, once a tank is overwhelmed with ick protozoa, that immunity falters, with the increasing ick numbers.
The confines of a tank usually mean an epidemic, and once it is in the tank, quarantining fish, or putting them in a hospital tank is useless, as are salt dips or med baths . Because microscopic young ick will have dropped everywhere, you must treat the entire tank.
You must also treat it with either meds, or salt. Increasing heat only speeds up the ick life cycle, speeding the life cycle makes it easier to treat, because only certain stages of the ick life cycle are vulnerable to treatment. When the spots are on the fish, the fishes own slime coat protects the ick from treatment, it is only when ick is off the fish, that meds or salt will kill it.

There you go. An authoritative input from a professional microbiologist and an MFK titan. Thanks, Duanes!

 

[coolcomfort]

I would like to say that I don't think this fish will make it. I've never had a more odd experience with a fish before in my life. I took him out of my main take and placed him into the quarantine. The fish got very very stressed out and darted all over the place. Eventually he started laying on his back. After a while I figured he was dead. I went to scoop him up, and he darted again. I figured he was either basically dead or under extreme anxiety. I didn't have much faith in him living and I didn't want the parasite to infect my QT tank. After about 2-3 more hours, I saw him lying on his back, basically dead. I went to scoop him up, this time I perfectly scooped him without issue. He didn't dart or anything. I figured it was time to dispose of him, but I put him in a bucket filled with water from the main tank. I figured maybe, the QT tank parameters were too different.

The next day I wake up and I still see him lying down, same spot, looked dead. I looked at the bucket, tapped it to see if there was any reaction, and there was nothing. I figured at this point, he was definitely dead. I was kind of sad, but kind of relieved. Fish are very stressful to deal with. I was planning on disposing of it all day today, but ran out of time. At 1AM, to my absolute surprise, I see him swimming again. This time he looks perfectly normal. Swimming much more than yesterday. I'm beyond confused. I hope he'll live, but I just feel completely weird about the entire situation. The emotional roller coaster i've gone through is drastic. I regret not buying a pair, maybe that would've made him more comfortable.

This is definitely the strangest experience I've ever had. I'm really not sure where to continue. I am considering returning him to the main tank. I'll risk infecting the rest of my fish, but they seem to be doing fine with high temperatures.

I feel like with all the changes it's unlikely he'll survive. But as I say this he is swimming normally. very weird.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

More or less this sounds expected of an IDS. No enigma here at all. This is how they react to stress of rehoming, attacks, spooks, etc. The laying down was from being discombobulated from hitting the walls etc. It is not uncommon for them to knock themselves out and come to it later or even die. Or die later from the concussions.

I'd place it back in the main tank and medicate, with salt or with another medication as instructed. It sounds the temp alone won't cut it.

Your loach and RTC should be fine.

BTW, when you bump the temp, it is always prudent to increase aeration. The higher the temp, the less DO water contains.

When you are determining if the fish is alive, when it doesn't move, look at the gill movement. The fish must breath whether conscious or unconscious.

And keep your cool. Pun intended.

 

[duanes]

Your main tank is already infected anyway, there are ick cysts everywhere in the tank. Quarantine for ick after the disease in introduced, is useless (unless you are quarantining the carrier, before it is put in the tank) the cysts do not stay on the fish. the spots are just one phase of the ick life cycle. There are also planktonic stages (where ick is vulnerable to treatment), and a stage where the ick sits in the substrate. Both these stages are microscopic. Ick is not vulnerable to meds while dormant in the substrate, or while they are spots on the fish.
The opening post is one of the prime examples why every aquarist should have a quarantine tank to put new arrivals in before adding to the main tank.
I quarantine any new fish for at least 2 months, in a separate tank.
A friend who runs the aquariums at a zoo, quarantines at least 6 months before adding any new fish to the main display tanks.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Question for the OP. Have any of the other fish developed the white spots at all? If not then you may be dealing with something other than ich(ick). Just a thought since it has been several days and I do not recall your mentioning any spots on the other fish.

I also use a QT for all new fish.

 

[Wet-Side Aquatics]

Hi, new guy here. Anyway, in my experience in fish retail, the best medication for getting rid of ich has been Hikari's Ich-X for me. I would use it in every system at full dose during any active outbreak (scaless fish included) and then at half dose after every big water change or introduction of a new fish to treat things as a prophylactic.

This combo'd with daily water changes during an outbreak would take care of things rather well. Typically, all the spots would drop within a week. And then I would continue treatment for at least another week to make damn sure they stayed gone. Nets, viewers, siphon tubes, etc. are all restricted to that system as well to prevent anything bouncing from tank to tank.

Bonus from the daily water changes is that you will dramatically reduce your nitrate levels and remove a large amount of organics that will have accumulated. And clean, cycled water goes a long way in maintaining the health of your fish and preventing a multitude of ailments.

*Edit* The other reason I like Ich-X is that it is just as effective in the treatment of velvet which can appear very similar to Ich at first but is much, much, MUCH more virulent.

 

[pcb0832]

Hi I use Seachem Paraguard dosing for 7 days and always cures my ich.

*Canadian fish keepers*
They have banned fish medicine for canadians (unsure if just Ontario or all of canada) and now Bigals and many other fish stores will no longer sell fish medications such as Seachem Paraguard. Amazon is currently still selling it and I highly suggest you pick up a large quantity before it disappears. New law here is you need a prescription from a vet to get the medicine for your fish.