ick problems?
- Thread starter evox53187
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I agree with you tiger. Meds are very effective & faster. I'd recommend a small treatment tank with ich medication along with bumping up the temp...should be gone within 2 days. I wouldn't want my fish to live in medicated water for long periods of time...only for treatment.
I think the main issue here is prevention. From experience, the main cause of ich is due to the sudden change in water temp during water changes. 50% wc is a bit drastic...reduce it to 20-30% and make sure the water temp you put back into the tank is similar in temperature. During the summer months, I can get away with refilling the tank directly with a garden hose but colder winter months, I dare not.
Same here! Those that are quick to use meds can't care how long their fish lives...
Matter of opinion, preference, and what's worked in someone's personal experience. Most of us, myself included, have only a sketchy knowledge of fish meds and their biology and effects. Very few of us are anything approaching experts. For example, how many know which common meds are less effective or not effective in African cichlid (or medium to hard water) conditions because they react with calcium in the water, reducing their effectiveness?
But I'll put it this way. When you're sick, chances are the first thing you'll try is rest or some form of home care or home remedy or over the counter remedy and hope that's enough. But if you stay sick or get worse or whatever it is seems to be serious you probably go to a professional and accept some form of medication.
I approach fish that way. Something mild I treat without meds, even ich. But if it persists or worsens or looks like something serious I'm not going to fool around while my fish suffers or goes downhill. Many, maybe most, fish meds, used properly and not overused or overdosed are not going to do any long term damage to your fish or shorten their lives. I know this from research and personal experience. You have to consider, which will be more damaging to your fish, allowing an illness or pathogen to continue to damage your fish if a milder form of treatment isn't working or stepping in with medication?
Had my first case of ich in probably 20 years last summer, result of a 10 day power outage after the derecho storm we had and having to keep my fish alive without power by doing water changes out of a nearby river. Afterward I had ich, bad in one tank, no doubt introduced with the river water. Tried heat and salt and it was only getting worse. So I went to Coppersafe, fish still looking bad. Added daily doses of Aquari-sol (the whole point being to get the total levels of copper high enough) and saw substantial results within days, kept up Aquari-sol for another week, left salt and heat and Coppersafe as is for another couple of weeks and never saw a hint of it again. Fish are good ever since, spawning, growing, etc. etc.
Mild case of ich is one thing, but bad case of ich can cause gill and tissue damage, result in secondary bacterial or fungal infection, or even kill a fish. If heat and salt are working, great, stick with it. But if not you don't want to fool around imo.
But I'll put it this way. When you're sick, chances are the first thing you'll try is rest or some form of home care or home remedy or over the counter remedy and hope that's enough. But if you stay sick or get worse or whatever it is seems to be serious you probably go to a professional and accept some form of medication.
I approach fish that way. Something mild I treat without meds, even ich. But if it persists or worsens or looks like something serious I'm not going to fool around while my fish suffers or goes downhill. Many, maybe most, fish meds, used properly and not overused or overdosed are not going to do any long term damage to your fish or shorten their lives. I know this from research and personal experience. You have to consider, which will be more damaging to your fish, allowing an illness or pathogen to continue to damage your fish if a milder form of treatment isn't working or stepping in with medication?
Had my first case of ich in probably 20 years last summer, result of a 10 day power outage after the derecho storm we had and having to keep my fish alive without power by doing water changes out of a nearby river. Afterward I had ich, bad in one tank, no doubt introduced with the river water. Tried heat and salt and it was only getting worse. So I went to Coppersafe, fish still looking bad. Added daily doses of Aquari-sol (the whole point being to get the total levels of copper high enough) and saw substantial results within days, kept up Aquari-sol for another week, left salt and heat and Coppersafe as is for another couple of weeks and never saw a hint of it again. Fish are good ever since, spawning, growing, etc. etc.
Mild case of ich is one thing, but bad case of ich can cause gill and tissue damage, result in secondary bacterial or fungal infection, or even kill a fish. If heat and salt are working, great, stick with it. But if not you don't want to fool around imo.
^^ agreed, but it's important to note, the op only used heat. IME it takes BOTH heat and salt to remedy the problem effectively.
You can cure a headache with baby aspirin. You can also cure it with oxycodone, but personally, Id like to at least try the recommended dose of aspirin first....
You can cure a headache with baby aspirin. You can also cure it with oxycodone, but personally, Id like to at least try the recommended dose of aspirin first....
I always try to use the least stressful form of treatment possibile first. It is also dependent on the fish in question and the water perameters of a particular tank. Some meds work great in certain types of water and are completly ineffective in others. The fact is salt and heat cure ich most of the time and that is all you may ever need to do. Some forms/strains of ich are resistant so in that case meds may be required. If they are needed use them but I don't like to go that route right out of the gate. Clean water gravel vacuming elavated temperature and salt is my first suggestion always..........after that I would use the water parameters to choose the most appropreate med. While Malachite green as an example is a good choice for most water conditions it becomes more toxic the lower the Ph and hardness and can prove letheal in some soft blackwater environments. With choosing meds there is always the chance you can do more harm than good if you don't know the contradictions of what your are using or combining.
The last time I saw ick on one of my fish I took the fish out and put it in a separate plastic tote. I used 2 totes and every couple of days I switched what tote it was in. I would fill the totes with water from my main tank. add salt and increase the temp. I used a net to transfer the fish. After a couple of days in one tote I would put it in the other one and completely drain the tote that it was in. I would fill my main tank with fresh water to keep the level up from being drained in to the totes. The fish got better and I put it back with the rest of the fish. From what I have been told the ick gets in to the water after a fish starts to have problems with it so the goal is to remove the fish from the contaminated water.
Thanks all for elaborating on my lil statement. Of corse if the heat and salt don't work then its time to bring out the meds because we care about our fish. But at the same time like Tom said... With meds you take a chance of doing more harm than good. Over the years I have had ick a few times and healed it without meds. But this last strain of ick I had a fight with was amazingly a lot stronger than any other ick problem I have had. It killed 2 of my fish before I got it under control(yes I HAD to use meds). Some cases are worse than others but heat and salt usually works. Nice JonY3k... Never heard of doing that before.
Using salt and elevated temperature remedy is not without risk. Raising the temperature above normal level can run the risk of over heating. Some fish, like Rift Lake cichlds, are vulnerable to heat death above 88F. Some soft water fish are stressed by high salinity. Salt and high temperature will work, but it is slow, tedious to administer, and need careful monitorng to avoid over shooting, and it need water change and gradual temperature reduction to restore to normal condition. If you have a big tank, raising the temperature may not be the option unless you have extra capacity heater. On the other hand, a small tank is vulnerable to over heating.
It is so much easier to administer Malachite Green. It's a one step process by following the intruction. MG has been tested to be so effective in killing off external parasites that normally one to no more than 2 dosages are enough to eliminate ict. Additonally, there is no concern for residual effect after the treatment because MG is rapidly biodegradable even without water change. I talked to LFS owners, they told me that they have no time to mess around with salt and temperature treatment as they need quick and fast remedy. Many LFSs use low concentration salt in their circulation system to prevent ick, not to cure ick.
Ick spreads rapidly in some fish like loaches, and I tried salt and temperature remedy many times but salt worked too slowly that everytime they ended up dead. The instruction says that loaches are sensitive to MG, but I still found that half strength MG as recommended worked best to cure Ick in loaches.
However, I will not recommend copper treatment. Copper is metal and will stay in the system and hard to get rid off after treatment even with large water change because some copper is absorbed into rock and slowly releases back to the system.
It is so much easier to administer Malachite Green. It's a one step process by following the intruction. MG has been tested to be so effective in killing off external parasites that normally one to no more than 2 dosages are enough to eliminate ict. Additonally, there is no concern for residual effect after the treatment because MG is rapidly biodegradable even without water change. I talked to LFS owners, they told me that they have no time to mess around with salt and temperature treatment as they need quick and fast remedy. Many LFSs use low concentration salt in their circulation system to prevent ick, not to cure ick.
Ick spreads rapidly in some fish like loaches, and I tried salt and temperature remedy many times but salt worked too slowly that everytime they ended up dead. The instruction says that loaches are sensitive to MG, but I still found that half strength MG as recommended worked best to cure Ick in loaches.
However, I will not recommend copper treatment. Copper is metal and will stay in the system and hard to get rid off after treatment even with large water change because some copper is absorbed into rock and slowly releases back to the system.
