Id this fish please-Camph.?? Cam-I pmd you about this one

[BIG_ONE]

First of all, show me one picture of a known Trimac that does not exhibit the mark below the eye. And by known, now days that means a trimac that is known to originate from wild caught fish. eg. from Jeff Rapps.

How do you know that a flowerhorn with a tear drop marking does not pocess any trimac genes? The EXACT lineages of flowerhorns are not known, unless you actually claim to be an originator of the first strains, yourself! If the trait didn't come from a trimac, what C.A. cichlid do you supose it somehow came from given the fact that none others exhibit it?

I never claimed that a trimac does not not exhibit their tear drop marking. I clearly stated that just because they have a tear drop marking doesn't mean they have trimac in them.
I've put a lot of time of effort into the studying of flowerhorns itself, and I certainly think that I do not know enough yet. But I will tell you that I have been discussing with a few experts out there. And when I say experts, I mean the best of the best. You can go to flowerhorncraze and discuss this with Lucky. He is one of the best of the best when it comes to flowerhorns. I'm not saying he knows everything, but I guarantee he knows stuff that you might never thought and came across of. I myself have also e-mailed Ching Trung(sorry if I spelled his name wrong) from Vietnam. He is a great breeder and also hobbyist supplying the top of the top line Tan King, King Lai, Phu Kung etc. I'm talking about fish that is 5 racks and you will hardly ever see them making over to the U.S.
Now lets get to the point here, I never said that the flowerhorn itself didn't came in a line with trimac in it. But I did clearly say that there are flowerhorns out there that never consist any trimac but contains the tear drop. And these tear drops are inherited through flowerlines crossing under the eye that makes it seem like it is tear drop.
I will tell you this...fish that falls into the trimac category is mainly Zhen Zhou. Original Kamfa and GM never inherited any trimac in them. Wonder why they never had any flowerlines, only very few? Talking about all the old school classics here. After they are being bred selectively for flowerlines, it stretch across from under the eye and down. Believe it or not, it's your call and I'm sticking to it...

 

[Chrisplosion]

I never claimed that a trimac does not not exhibit their tear drop marking. I clearly stated that just because they have a tear drop marking doesn't mean they have trimac in them.
I've put a lot of time of effort into the studying of flowerhorns itself, and I certainly think that I do not know enough yet. But I will tell you that I have been discussing with a few experts out there. And when I say experts, I mean the best of the best. You can go to flowerhorncraze and discuss this with Lucky. He is one of the best of the best when it comes to flowerhorns. I'm not saying he knows everything, but I guarantee he knows stuff that you might never thought and came across of. I myself have also e-mailed Ching Trung(sorry if I spelled his name wrong) from Vietnam. He is a great breeder and also hobbyist supplying the top of the top line Tan King, King Lai, Phu Kung etc. I'm talking about fish that is 5 racks and you will hardly ever see them making over to the U.S.
Now lets get to the point here, I never said that the flowerhorn itself didn't came in a line with trimac in it. But I did clearly say that there are flowerhorns out there that never consist any trimac but contains the tear drop. And these tear drops are inherited through flowerlines crossing under the eye that makes it seem like it is tear drop.
I will tell you this...fish that falls into the trimac category is mainly Zhen Zhou. Original Kamfa and GM never inherited any trimac in them. Wonder why they never had any flowerlines, only very few? Talking about all the old school classics here. After they are being bred selectively for flowerlines, it stretch across from under the eye and down. Believe it or not, it's your call and I'm sticking to it...

 

[BC in SK]

But I did clearly say that there are flowerhorns out there that never consist any trimac but contains the tear drop.

Could be, but I'm certainly not convinced. Trimac is certainly one of the oringinal species used to make flowerhorns. When new breeds were developed since, I'm sure they are not starting from scratch and importing all pure wild caught fish to make new breeds. The trimac genes are there, even if the tear drop marking is the only trimac trait left being exhibited. Since the trimac is the only C.A. cichlid to exhibit this trait (at least that I know of), no reason to supose it came from any where else.

Yes, I am aware that flowerhorns have been line bred for the trait, so that it resembles a tear drop, even more so. Still doesn't change, where the trait originally came from.

You said it wasn't a basis to identify a trimac. Maybe it wasn't clear to me exactly what you meant . But I say it definately is a basis,( amongst other traits,) as no other pure C.A. cichlid exhibits it (that I know of). And I am not trying to make some kind of iron clad law, because A) there is probably the very rare exceptional Trimac that does not have one ;B) MAYBE some regional variant not in the hobby or very uncommon in the hobby that do not exhibit or C) MAYBE very old mature specimens in which the trait has faded away or is no longer exhibited. BUt generally EXPECT a pure trimac to have the marking below the eye. I have yet to see one that doesn't have it; Trimacs in the past certainly did, as well as those being impoerted by Jeff Rapps.

 

[BIG_ONE]

Well like I said, breeding for the purpose of flowerlines brings out what seems like a tear drop from trimac. Multiple generation of Red Mammom x Vieja x Carpintis and you will see that it gains flowerlines. Inbreeding them and it brings the genes itself closer, therefore the flowerlines itself starts to develop even more. Not going to say I'm an expert on how selective breedings works, but this is definitely one of them no doubt. If anyone else knows more please feel free to share...