ideal level of nitrate?

[Acer]

As long as the ammonia and nitrites levels stay in check it is ok right??

Ammonia and nitrites are really bad for fish... but adding nitrates to sustain plant growth won't affect your fish if it isn't too high (below 40 ppm like most people cite). Zero nitrates mean your plants are assimilating all available nitrogenous compounds - which means they are either in perfect equilibrium or want more for growth.

I tried looking for some peer-reviewed stuff regarding nitrates and fish health, but couldn't find an actual value... I read one publication that stated nitrates were relatively nontoxic except in high concentrations (300 ppm). http://www.govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2003/725/7250010.pdf

I don't buy that, but most articles seem to say nitrates are relatively non-toxic... I'm guessing they aren't aquarium people? Or maybe high nitrates (<40ppm) are a red herring, and really it is abnormally high hormones and other substances that are stressing the fish?

Either way... keep them low! I don't like seeing mine above 20ppm... if I ever see 40ppm I change the water right then.

 

[skiptomyzoo]

I try to keep them under 40 in my heavily stocked 90. Under 25 would be better, thats why I'm reducing the stock. Although like mentioned they don't know what the effects are, high nitrates most likely aren't good. However, nitrates are good for plants, and if your levels are high enough, quite a bit of unwanted algae too.

 

[Pyramid_Party]

Keep them low to be on the safe side, 40 ppm or less. No need to get paranoid about it. Ive heard a few times of people keeping fish in nitrates higher than that and it had no ill-effects.

 

[TwistedPenguin]

Oh well, so I'm paranoid about it, Pyramid Party My Oscars stay at 5 or below and my other tanks stay below 10. I'm also one of those weirdos that actually enjoys water changes & am overly attached to my Oscars. I suppose I need therapy......but that would cut into my water change time :-D

 

[Toby_H]

Some fish, such as Discus, are very sensative to nitrates and water quality in general... for them 40 ppm would be too high...

But for most of our Cichlids, I agree 40 ppm and under is a level that shouldn't do any damage to our fish...

Have any of you guys ever checked your local ponds and lakes for nitrates? I've tested over a dozen local bodies of water and have never found nitrates in any of them. Plants work

If I understand correctly... plants 'eat' ammonia and nitrites more readily than they 'eat' nitrates. Which means less nitrates will be produced. That doesn't conflict with anything said here, nor proves anything... but is a point worth noting, or correcting if I'm wrong (if correctingn please supply data/references if possible).

One thing I think the vast majority of us overlook... I've never heard of a person who smoked a single cigarette and died... but we know that smoking kills us. I believe nitrates work similarly. A fish in high nitrates (100 ppm for example) for a short time (20 minutes for example), is probably fairly safe. Sort of like a healthy non smoker walking through a smokey room. It sucks while your there but doesn't 'harm' you... But a fish in a tank with 50 ppm for it's entire life will probably take it's toll. Sort of like a smoker that avoids smokey rooms and only smokes outside. They still get lung cancer.

Most people consider a 5 or 7 year old Cichlid "old", even though these fish have the potential to live 12+ years. I have no clue if nitrates are the reason our fish rarely live out their full potantial, but I think it's only logical to remove any potential risks we know of... and nitrates are a potential risk we know of...

Hmmm... I just convinced myself to go do a water change... have you done your's in the last week?

 

[HarleyK]

One thing I think the vast majority of us overlook... I've never heard of a person who smoked a single cigarette and died...

Every person I know who smokes one cigarette will die, just like the rest of us Sorry, couldn't resist. But you're right, the dose makes the poison, and dose is a function of exposure time and concentration.

Have any of you guys ever checked your local ponds and lakes for nitrates? I've tested over a dozen local bodies of water and have never found nitrates in any of them.

You must live in an area without agriculture... fertilizer run-off is a major contributor to surface (and ground) water nitrates.

If I understand correctly... plants 'eat' ammonia and nitrites more readily than they 'eat' nitrates. Which means less nitrates will be produced.

Plant roots are pretty stagnant, while biomedia is heavily perfused with tank water. Thus, I'd bet beneficial bacteria gobble up nitrites and ammonia a lot faster. Long before nitrites and ammonia can be taken up by plants in appreciable amounts. I wouldn't consider plants to be a significant sink for these pollutants. If they were, you wouldn't have to cycle a planted tank.

HarleyK

 

[Pyramid_Party]

What some people dnt know is, there is still amonia and nitrItes still in your water. When people say 0, its not true. There is always this stuff in the water but its so low its off the chart and most kits dont read it. If you use a real high tech kit you will see that there is small amounts of it in your water.


As far as NitrAtes, you dont need to be very paranoid about it. Higher levels will kill off fish fry and inverts and other sensitive fish 1st. Big healthy fish wont be affected. If your nitrates read 60-80 your fish arent gonna drop dead immediately. Im not saying you should ignore it, or keep your fish with this level of NitrAtes, I say do water changes and try to keep it under 40 ppm. But Ive heard people having nitrAtes much higher and fish were fine.


I just think too many people hear things and do as others do rather than knowing the true limits of things. If your NitrAtes are at 20 ppm, and it shoots up to like 150 ppm really fast, that big change will probably kill most fish. Its just like PH swings or big changes in temps (up or down). If it gradually rises its not gonna kill your fish immediately.

 

[packer43064]

Back when I was a youngster in the whole keeping fish area(bout 2 years ago, lol) I once had my nitrates over 80ppm. The test kit was a deep blood red meaning 80ppm at least. I'm not proud of it or anything but my fish did live and were fine. Well fine enough to live, i'm really into fish keeping now so I change water weekly and it's never over 20ppm really.

 

[Pyramid_Party]

Yup, fish are more tolerable that some people might know. Ive added fish to a tank before that wasnt even cycled yet and the fish lived.

 

[svtim]

This turned into a really informitive thread thanks for posts