I'm annoyed as hell.

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HerCrenVie

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Sep 21, 2007
1,090
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Singapore
It just doesn't add up. How is a species with uber-aggressive males going to ensure its continued existence when the males are simply too aggressive to spawn? Shouldn't the aggressive gene have been selected against ages ago, according to natural selection? I don't see how the aggressive gene helps the population in any way whatsoever. I'm posting this out of sheer frustration with my male Teleocichla (?) centrarchus. He's the one and only wife-hitter I've ever had. Even typically aggressive Central American cichlids were never like this. Earlier today I removed every damn piece of crushed coral in the tank and added some Indian almond tree leaves (used in the same way as blackwater extract), in the hope that the male would be stimulated to spawn with the two females residing with him. And the result? He's still attacking them like ever before. The leaf litter now provides a lot of cover for the females, but he nevertheless seeks them out and chases them. And don't blame the tank size; it's a 60x30x45, and that's more than enough space for a trio of fish that barely exceed 3" in length at adulthood. I think the male I have is a freak. A mentally unsound freak.
 
Well, I would say that aggression like you're seeing is the RESULT of natural selection. Think about it this way. How else would a species ensure it's survival with such a small adult size? By only allowing the toughest, most aggressive members to procreate and survive. I would say your male is "testing" the females to see if they're worthy for him to spawn with.
 
I have to admit that made a world of sense. But surely, so much conspecific aggression undermines prolificity, and thus, the ability of the species to replicate itself?
 
Compared to the river, your tank is miniscule. Males set up territories to breed, he's an alpha male, he wouldn't allow any fish in his territory in the wild unless it was a female ready to breed. They may defend a territiry that's 6-8 sq. feet in the wild and your tank does not come close to encompassing that much space. I'd condition the females separate and when they are loaded with eggs introduce them one at a time. Ken
 
fishfarm;2194233; said:
Compared to the river, your tank is miniscule. Males set up territories to breed, he's an alpha male, he wouldn't allow any fish in his territory in the wild unless it was a female ready to breed. They may defend a territiry that's 6-8 sq. feet in the wild and your tank does not come close to encompassing that much space. I'd condition the females separate and when they are loaded with eggs introduce them one at a time. Ken
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That's not the issue. I'm talking about genetics. Why is the aggressive gene present in Teleocichla when it clearly hinders spawning, as compared to other AGGRESSIVE cichlids that form pairs easily and spawn with no fuss at all, despite their belligerence?
 
Rapid dwelling dwarf pikes are uber aggressive too, look at compressiceps, heckeli, or urosema. It makes sense though. There aren't as many hiding spaces in rapidly flowing water as there is calmer water with all the leaves and wood roots and such. Becuase cover is rarer, when you find a spot you better be able to keep it. Even amoung larger pikes, those from faster flowing water seem to be more aggressive (ie xingu 1's).
 
fishfarm;2194233; said:
Compared to the river, your tank is miniscule. Males set up territories to breed, he's an alpha male, he wouldn't allow any fish in his territory in the wild unless it was a female ready to breed. They may defend a territiry that's 6-8 sq. feet in the wild and your tank does not come close to encompassing that much space. I'd condition the females separate and when they are loaded with eggs introduce them one at a time. Ken
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That explains it all perfectly right there! Thanks Ken!

HerCrenVie;2194294; said:
That's not the issue. I'm talking about genetics. Why is the aggressive gene present in Teleocichla when it clearly hinders spawning, as compared to other AGGRESSIVE cichlids that form pairs easily and spawn with no fuss at all, despite their belligerence?
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I believe Ken DID address the issue, quite well actually. You can't take a fish from the wild that is used to having a large territory and force it to spawn in cramped conditions without there being reprocussions. Also, having kept Crenicichla, you are aware that forcing pairs seldom works well. In your case, the more the better really. I'd try keeping three or four females with your one male.

It also makes sense about what Ken was saying about chasing away other fish. If the females in his territory aren't ready for breeding, then they are just taking up space and eating the food that could be used for females that ARE ready for spawning. So naturally he is going to want to chase them away.

Frustrating, yesh, but you can't get grumpy at the fish for it. Its instincts. You CAN add more fish, and MORE hiding places. That may help break up the aggression. Sorry for your grieviencies!
 
Meh. He's still at it. No physical damage done to the females, but they might just die of stress if this keeps up forever. I think I'm just gonna sell them and stick to what I'm used to before the females die on me.
 
HerCrenVie;2196118; said:
Meh. He's still at it. No physical damage done to the females, but they might just die of stress if this keeps up forever. I think I'm just gonna sell them and stick to what I'm used to before the females die on me.
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Well that sucks to hear you say that. They are indeed pretty rare fish, its great to try and get them into the hobby. Perhaps another time?
 
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