Info needed on a FL ray

[abortedsoul]

Very unlikely that Florida would issue a permit to a hobbyist.

Now, I don't live anywhere near Florida, but I'm curious- how hard is it to get a permit?

 

[Nic]

Nic, you know you got a pretty cool avitar and all, but you need to check your facts before speaking out. Your statement should have been South American and Asian freshwater stingrays are restricted species in Florida (read this as meaning they can be kept with proper documentation issued by FWC).

D. Sabina the Atlantic Stingray is a legal stingray to keep in Florida. There is a true freshwater strain of this species that have been land locked below the Rodman Dam since the 60s.

To answer the OP, D. Sabina can be collected and kept in PURE freshwater. These fish can obtain sizes of over 20 lbs and 3 ft. wingpspan. This I know because we catch them all the time in the St. Johns river between Orlando and Titusville.

i know my facts very well and stand by what i said... if a regular hobbyist managed to get a permit they have very deep pockets and some high level political friends... so again ill say they are illegal to keep in florida cause you will find jimmy hoffa before you get a permit...


yes they can be kept in freshwater but zoo diver allready commented on that...

 

[Zoodiver]

FL will not issue a permit for freshwater rays (S. American and Asian species) to a private owner under any circumstances. It's not even easy to get one as a public display facility in this state.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

All you need is a fresh water fishing license.

Any freshwater NON-GAME fish can be harvested and captively kept with a fishing lic. And you don't even need a fishing freshwater fishing license if you are using a cane pole.

The exception to this is harvesting Alligator Gar which requires a Scientific Collecto'r Permit.

 

[Nic]

All you need is a fresh water fishing license.

Any freshwater NON-GAME fish can be harvested and captively kept with a fishing lic. And you don't even need a fishing freshwater fishing license if you are using a cane pole.

The exception to this is harvesting Alligator Gar which requires a Scientific Collecto'r Permit.

so we are all talking about south american and asian rays.... not atlantic rays....

 

[ajb1971]

You've all made your valid points and a pissing contest is not needed here the bottom line is....................................................................................................

Florida has the most numbers of invasive species, due mostly to idiotic, irresponcible hobbiest, there for they won't issue a document for legal ownership of S.American or Asian fresh water rays.
Yeah, owning an Atlantic ray is legal because they are native to FL's local waters, but as ZooDiver stated, unless you have a mega huge tank to dilute the toxicity of their waste the Atlantic ray WILL die.

Rivers even land-locked lakes may support these rays, but the volume of water also controls the concentrated ammounts of ammonia in their waste. Once again if not brought through brackish and eventually full marine salt water THE RAY WILL DIE.

There are cases of Bull sharks in Brazilian lakes, even known to breed in the lakes, but are these a fresh water fish?---------------NO!, and they'd due much better living in salt water. Studies on these river and lake bull sharks show the same thing as rays, even though they are saltwater species, they venture in to fresh water for breeding and sometimes feeding and may even end up staying their lives in fresh water but due to the lack of salt in the water and now the animals system they produce way more ammonia than 100% fresh water species.

So, Snakeguy made the right decision in backing off trying to keep an Atlantic ray in fresh----I love when people take good advice, especially from a sound sourse.

 

[TheRealMacDaddy]

"so we are all talking about south american and asian rays.... not atlantic rays.... "

Huh? Dude you off the meds again? The OP's question was about D. Sabina all along

As for the Ammonia issue...with adequate (and when I say adequate I don't mean just enough to get by, I mean enough to handle the load at least 12x) filtration Sabinas can be kept nicely in a 300Gal tank. Oh, additionally, the emphasis of the filtration should be Chemical as opposed to Biological (heavy on the Ammo Chips).

Remember we aquarists are already keeping fish from all over the world in biosystems that we manipulate to provide the closest as possible parameters to their natural state. And just because a fish produces a high amount of ammonia in it's waste does not make it impossible to keep. Otherwise, all my chacka chackas would be dead (they too produce a extreme amount of ammonia in their waste).

So don't discourage another fish keeper from a particular specimen, give him/her the knowlegde to be able to keep the animal, which is what the OP was asking for.

 

[ajb1971]

Hmmm, I guess you missed my point altogether as did Zoo Diver.

There is no permit needed whatsoever to keep D. Sabina a Florida Native Freshwater Stingray in the Great State of Florida. So your facts were incorrect when you said no freshwater S. Rays could be kept in this State.

And there have been changes in Florida Statutes, Administrative Codes and FWC Regulations which have relaxed the importation and possession for commercial purposes of what are now called CONDITIONAL species, in other words they are no longer Restricted.

With a valid Aquaculture Certificate of Registration from the Dept. of Agriculture ($100 annual fee), a Florida Resident's Fish Dealers License ($40 annually) and an FWC Permit for Conditional species (annual permit, no-cost). I can import South American Stingrays into Florida day in and day out.

Just, they cannot be sold or transferred to any person in the State of Florida that does not possess the same paperwork. Also each and every fish imported must be accounted for through appropriate Bills of Lading and distribution records.

See as a retired Attorney, it gives me the Jaw, when someone just throws out some statement and purports it to be fact. What I'm saying is that if an entity meets all the legal requirements of the State of Florida they can in fact have a freshwater stingray other than D. Sabina in their possession. To deny that entity if all requirements are met by the various State Agencies, would be in violation of Florida Law and our Constitution. Now I won't debate the intracacies of Pennsylvania Laws (even though I was born in Abington right outside of Philly and grew up in Buck's County), but I do know Florida Law and say you are standing by fallacious facts.

I'm not advocating the ownership or possession of S/A or Asian F/W Rays, we have enough of a problem with Nile Monitors and Pythons as it is and Oscars are more plentiful than Bluegills anymore...but you should do some legal research before making all encompassing statements.

I think you too missed the point that they won't hand 'em out for just normal hobbiest for private ownership, sounds like, from what you explained it's for business for importers/distibutors.
And from my statement above
"Florida has the most numbers of invasive species, due mostly to idiotic, irresponcible hobbiest, there for, they won't issue a document for legal ownership of S.American or Asian fresh water rays.
Yeah, owning an Atlantic ray is legal because they are native to FL's local waters, but as ZooDiver stated, unless you have a mega huge tank to dilute the toxicity of their waste the Atlantic ray WILL die."

 

[turkeyboy85]

question has been answered, atlantic rays should only be kept in salt water if you want your ray to survive, I have not heard of one person on this forum (yes i know there are ray keepers besides on this forum) actually keep an atlantic stingray alive in freshwater for over a year. The reason was already stated in zoodivers statement.
S.A. Rays can be imported and kept at a facility in florida if they have the proper liscensing (NECICHLIDS) is an example of this, But he cannot sell within state. So once again for an average person wanting to KEEP rays, it is nearly impossible to get a permit to house S.A. Rays in state.

 

[Zoodiver]

All you need is a fresh water fishing license.

Any freshwater NON-GAME fish can be harvested and captively kept with a fishing lic. And you don't even need a fishing freshwater fishing license if you are using a cane pole.

The exception to this is harvesting Alligator Gar which requires a Scientific Collecto'r Permit.

That's the kicker, because Atlantic rays are considered "ornimental marine life" for legal purposes. Private owners can collect up to 10 specimens per day (following other guidelines as well) on the basic permit.