Inverts feel pain?
- Thread starter davo
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davo;1283236; said:That's pretty horrible... but interesting none the less. What were you doing it for?
bettagurl;1283251; said:What was the point of it?
Basically to find out the crayfish tolerance to chlorine.
In the first instance the zeolite worked well to reduce the ammonia but it does nothing to remove pathogens, bacteria etc as it is only an ion exchanger... The next, ammonia will bond with chlorine to form a more stable chloramine. We use chloramine [SIZE=-1]trihydrate for treatment of just about all issues with the tanks bio security. The bonding of ammonia and chlorine to form a basic chloramine has some benefit but just when to add it at what quantity is what we were looking for. Then we would be able to small dose the systems with chlorine to tie up the ammonia, removing the risk, with the benefit of cleaning the system. Unfortunately it does not really work that way because the chemical reaction is quite exothermic (hot) so needs to be done in a separate treatment tank.
The poor bugga looked to be feeling pain to me...
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I believe most creatures feel pain. It may even be possible that their perception of it can even be worse than ours. complexity of nervous system doesn't always mean more pain felt. aside from sponges in the sea who do not even have a nervous system, its convenient (for us who eat them) to think that all others do not feel pain. In the end I will still eat them. I will even eat raw oysters, and I know they feel something when I pry em open and chew.
thats why i chill them before boiling.davo;1276232; said:Chefs who prepare crustaceans by dropping them into boiling water while alive might now be feeling guilty, as scientists have provided evidence to suggest that invertebrates, such as prawns, can feel pain.
Biologists from the School of Biological Sciences at Queen's University, Belfast, examined how prawns reacted to noxious stimuli and believe they have found evidence to demonstrate that the invertebrates can feel pain.
When acetic acid was dabbed onto the antennae of the prawn, Palaemon elegans, it elicited an immediate reflex tail reflex response - something known as nociception. The prawn also undertook some prolonged "grooming" activities on the affected antenna.
The researchers believe that these behaviours might indicate that the prawns felt pain as a result of the stimuli applied.
Anaesthetic test
When the antenna was numbed with the drug benzocaine, a local anaesthetic, both sets of responses were inhibited.
The authors explained: "Noxious stimuli elicited an immediate reflex tail flick response, followed by two prolonged activities, grooming of the antenna and rubbing of the antenna against the side of the tank, with both activities directed specifically at the treated antenna.
"These responses were inhibited by benzocaine; however, benzocaine did not alter general swimming activity and thus the decline in grooming and rubbing is not due to general anaesthesia.
"Mechanical stimulation by pinching also resulted in prolonged rubbing, but this was not inhibited by benzocaine.
"These results indicate an awareness of the location of the noxious stimuli, and the prolonged complex responses indicate a central involvement in their organization.
"The inhibition by a local anaesthetic is similar to observations on vertebrates and is consistent with the idea that these crustaceans can experience pain."
Many experts previously believed that only vertebrate animals felt pain.
Cephalopods, such as octopus and cuttlefish, which have a larger central nervous system (CNS), and they are afforded legal protection in the UK when used in studies, while other invertebrates are not.
For more information see the paper: Barr S, Laming PR, Dick JTA and RW Elwood (2007) - Nociception or pain in a decapod crustacean? Animal Behaviour, doi:10.1016/j.anbehav.2007.07.004.
taken from PFK.
I was a ranchhand for about a year and when we branded cattle they would cry out for their mothers. But here's the catch, the moment the calf got to the mother and nursed a little it was hard to tell they had their skin seared. If I got branded like that, I would be laid out on a bed for a week. Our sense of pain is quite different from animals.
