I think if fish are kept in the proper environments and are healthy, I don't see a problem with it. Although I do see fishkeeping as very unfriendly to the environment. I work at a LFS and we dump 100's of gallons of water down the drain and suck power like no tomorrow. Not to mention salt in sw tanks is very bad for our local ecosystems.
is fish keeping immoral??
- Thread starter perdeep007
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jcardona1;3700331; said:fish dont have the mental capacity to know whether theyre in a river or in an aquarium in somebody's living room. as long as their basic survival requirements are met, im sure they could care less, if they could even "care" that is
I don't agree with that at all. Have you ever heard of training your fish? Its very possible. Read a book on psychology you'll understand its possible lol.
big dovii;3700361; said:
Classical conditioning is a far cry from the ability to understand and rationalize a situation.
While i think the whole debate is interesting.. the simple answer is is.. No more or less then anyone else keeping any type of creature in captivity. Personally as someone else stated.. I'm against man made hybrids. While hybridization itself is natural. It's generally used to improve a base species genetics... not astetically please people... Blood parrots are a prime example imo of bad fishkeeping. I've seen about 1/2 these fish with physical complications resulting from their mouths. You see this alot in other animal species such as respitory problems in pugs. Just for example. a Vast majority of dogs and cats are so "captively inbred" That they have changed to resemble nothing like the original breeds. I this this happening in the fishkeeping community as well now. A vast Majority of my fish are Captively bred, The ones that are wild caught I try to offer an opportunity to breed.
It's always a fine moral line.
I think hybrids are playing god, and wrong. But I don't hold it against people who choose to keep or breed these animals if done in a responsible way. I have no use for a Blood parrot, Flower horn, or Glo-tetra. Just to name the top 3 i hear the most about.
Good fish keepers imo who breed fish strive to keep the pureness that is the fish's "wild" type. Sure bring out it's natural colors more. But breed a solid, hearty fish.
big dovii you also raise a good point as to fishkeepings strain on the environment. I'm fairly confident it is no more or less then what "strain" a dog or cat would put on the environment, and indeed less then ourselves. workign in a LFS you see the "industrial" side of things and useage. as for the salt in SW tanks doing damage, salt can destroy plants.. to what extent, and at what levels. I'm not an expert by any means. But I can pretty much gaurantee you it's alot less hazardous then the super farm a few miles down the road from me w/ however many hundreds of head they milk now. The chemicals pumped into the food they feed those cows then what goes into the milk you drink. The environmental strain is already being seen here and it's been less 'n 10 yrs. since the megafarm was built. may sound like I'm compareing apples to oranges. But my point is fishkeeping "looks" worse then actuality i believe at least on that level. That is not to say we fishkeepers should not be always trying to find more environmentally friendly ways of keeping our fish.
Never seen this show the cove before. But I know dolphins have bred in captivity, as well as a large handful of other aquatic mammals. If this trainer truely felt the way they did they should be working to "free willy" and not belittle their chosen profession infront of millions of people. If what they think they are doing with their knowledge of the dolphin and captive husbandry is wrong. Then to still do it w/ the beliefs it's torture/abuse/ect ... Is worse 'n someone out of ignorance tossing an Oscar in a 10 gallon tank.
And Turning the channel teaches you nothing. Walking away from things is the F'd Up American way. And it's wrong.
But thats all just my oppinion
It's always a fine moral line.
I think hybrids are playing god, and wrong. But I don't hold it against people who choose to keep or breed these animals if done in a responsible way. I have no use for a Blood parrot, Flower horn, or Glo-tetra. Just to name the top 3 i hear the most about.
Good fish keepers imo who breed fish strive to keep the pureness that is the fish's "wild" type. Sure bring out it's natural colors more. But breed a solid, hearty fish.
big dovii you also raise a good point as to fishkeepings strain on the environment. I'm fairly confident it is no more or less then what "strain" a dog or cat would put on the environment, and indeed less then ourselves. workign in a LFS you see the "industrial" side of things and useage. as for the salt in SW tanks doing damage, salt can destroy plants.. to what extent, and at what levels. I'm not an expert by any means. But I can pretty much gaurantee you it's alot less hazardous then the super farm a few miles down the road from me w/ however many hundreds of head they milk now. The chemicals pumped into the food they feed those cows then what goes into the milk you drink. The environmental strain is already being seen here and it's been less 'n 10 yrs. since the megafarm was built. may sound like I'm compareing apples to oranges. But my point is fishkeeping "looks" worse then actuality i believe at least on that level. That is not to say we fishkeepers should not be always trying to find more environmentally friendly ways of keeping our fish.
Never seen this show the cove before. But I know dolphins have bred in captivity, as well as a large handful of other aquatic mammals. If this trainer truely felt the way they did they should be working to "free willy" and not belittle their chosen profession infront of millions of people. If what they think they are doing with their knowledge of the dolphin and captive husbandry is wrong. Then to still do it w/ the beliefs it's torture/abuse/ect ... Is worse 'n someone out of ignorance tossing an Oscar in a 10 gallon tank.
And Turning the channel teaches you nothing. Walking away from things is the F'd Up American way. And it's wrong.
But thats all just my oppinion
i dont think its immoral, unless the fish are badly cared for, i.e.- too small of a tank, no swimming room, not enough food, etc.
in an aquarium, we are providing fish with food that they would otherwise have to look for in the wold, and we are removing the threat of predators when we put fish in a tank.
and if anyone mentions feeder fish, just remember that many animals that we farm are kept in crammed conditions as well.
in an aquarium, we are providing fish with food that they would otherwise have to look for in the wold, and we are removing the threat of predators when we put fish in a tank.
and if anyone mentions feeder fish, just remember that many animals that we farm are kept in crammed conditions as well.
I believe it is immoral when you consider that for every fish that makes its way into an aquarium; > 5 have died in the harvesting and redistribution process (including those that die shortly after introduction into our aquariums). No other pet has that high of a fatality ratio.
I JUST THINK ITS WRONG TO CATCH FISH IN THE WILD N THROW EM IN A TANK. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO FRM A BIG LAKE OR RIVER TO LIL 125 OR SOMTHING THAT WOULD SUCK
agreed and that is also why certain animals should not be kept in captivity (under most circumstances)jcardona1;3700331; said:fish dont have the mental capacity to know whether theyre in a river or in an aquarium in somebody's living room. as long as their basic survival requirements are met, im sure they could care less, if they could even "care" that is
such as....great apes and probably primates in general, dolphins/whales etc
parrots...im not too sure how i feel about. one thing for sure is that denying their ability to fly is not right at all
