Is this a Zonatus

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It has been 5 days, pictures belong to the first day in my tank but not so much difference since then.
By the way, there are some variety differences mentioned in the internet for Zonatus; pasific area and atlantic area. Does anybody have any idea?

There's a nice article in here that discusses all the problems relating to guttulatus, zonatus and sp. 'coatzacoalcos'. ;)

http://www.eacichlid.co.uk/showthread.php?10090-Cichlid-Scene-Electronic-Download-Issue-2

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If you want my opinion then i don't believe guttulatum exists as an aquarium species!!

Where and who did you get your fish from in England "Oddball Express"?

Lee.
 
I think its still paratheraps guttaluttus. Could be wrong but you may never know til it reaches 6-7" and even then it can be hard. Hybrids of vieja/paratheraps are hard to identify, not at all implying you have a hybrid. I think guttaluttus, I own a 12" one

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Nutty,
Thanks very much for the article, lot of info there. It is not Oddball express or WoW like the last time. If you do not mind I do not want to share the name in order not to cause a misleading. He is a great man and he provided me all the information from the source of origin and he is more than sorry for this problem.

Freebyrd,
I am looking forward to see them when they reach around 6''. Is there a thread that I can see your 12'' one? To be honest with you I love the personalities of my 3 (hopefully) Guttulatus. Even at the size of 2''-3'' they are quite territorial and they start challenging 4'' Festaes !!
 
Here check this guy out I know the pics are bad but all I have is a cell phone.

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freebyrd,
This guy is great!! How old is he and since when are you keeping it?
I would appriciate if you could provide some info about his temperament as well !!

nutty,
I read all the relevant pages of the article, and the impression I had is you think (or already decided) that my guys are sp. 'coatzacoalcos'... correct?
 
nutty,
I read all the relevant pages of the article, and the impression I had is you think (or already decided) that my guys are sp. 'coatzacoalcos'... correct?

Most are collected from the 'Coatzacoalcos basin, as you may have seen on the map supplied, so are so called guttulatus stocks!!

There are Pacific side zonatus about, as you saw in the article the type locality zonatus looks very different from the 'Coatzacoalcos' populations. Both populations offered by Conkel are from the head waters of the 'Coatzacoalcos' basin.

You may have read my opinion before, but i believe intraspecific variability applies to many different cichlids and isn't always a trait to class two fish as different species.

The article concludes that sp. 'coatzacoalcos' are probably a regional variation of zonatus, but the problem how i see it is the relationship between guttulatus and zonatus. To my knowledge, the type locality guttulatus has never been caught or studied since Gunther re-described the species in 1869. Seth Meek studied Laguna Amatitilan in 1908 but reported that he couldn't find any fish going by Gunthers description. The type locality guttulatus is lost and a bit of a mystery!!

We could be in the position that zonatus is a regional variation of guttulatus which would then in turn render the latter as both junior synomyns!

As mentioned in the article, until the type locality guttulatus can be caught and studied, then we could be in for a very long wait to classify both species.

Just for the record, your fish is still quite young to give a positive id, however it does show markings characteristic of fenestratus, perhaps a mixture of the two? Its very hard to tell young fish by flash photography as the flash can create alsorts of different colours. Everyone can speculate, but better to let it develop a little more.

Here is a photo of Don's zonatus i used to keep, only a young fish pictured, as you can see the fish shows a lot of characteristics of sp. coatzacoalcos population, they look a little different to Pacific side zonatus populations. See if you can compare your own fish to the photo. Hope it helps?

DSC_3667_1.jpg


Cheers,

Lee Nuttall
 
freebyrd,
This guy is great!! How old is he and since when are you keeping it?
I would appriciate if you could provide some info about his temperament as well !!

nutty,
I read all the relevant pages of the article, and the impression I had is you think (or already decided) that my guys are sp. 'coatzacoalcos'... correct?

I've had him for about a year or more, he's slightly aggressive but nowhere near as aggressive as my zonatus. I also have a piebald cf. Fenestratus. I can only estimate his age as when I got him he was already 10 inches. Here is a pic of my zonatus for comparison

IMG_20111227_204337.jpg


IMG_20111215_164257.jpg


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 
Most are collected from the 'Coatzacoalcos basin, as you may have seen on the map supplied, so are so called guttulatus stocks!!

There are Pacific side zonatus about, as you saw in the article the type locality zonatus looks very different from the 'Coatzacoalcos' populations. Both populations offered by Conkel are from the head waters of the 'Coatzacoalcos' basin.

You may have read my opinion before, but i believe intraspecific variability applies to many different cichlids and isn't always a trait to class two fish as different species.

The article concludes that sp. 'coatzacoalcos' are probably a regional variation of zonatus, but the problem how i see it is the relationship between guttulatus and zonatus. To my knowledge, the type locality guttulatus has never been caught or studied since Gunther re-described the species in 1869. Seth Meek studied Laguna Amatitilan in 1908 but reported that he couldn't find any fish going by Gunthers description. The type locality guttulatus is lost and a bit of a mystery!!

We could be in the position that zonatus is a regional variation of guttulatus which would then in turn render the latter as both junior synomyns!

As mentioned in the article, until the type locality guttulatus can be caught and studied, then we could be in for a very long wait to classify both species.

Just for the record, your fish is still quite young to give a positive id, however it does show markings characteristic of fenestratus, perhaps a mixture of the two? Its very hard to tell young fish by flash photography as the flash can create alsorts of different colours. Everyone can speculate, but better to let it develop a little more.

Here is a photo of Don's zonatus i used to keep, only a young fish pictured, as you can see the fish shows a lot of characteristics of sp. coatzacoalcos population, they look a little different to Pacific side zonatus populations. See if you can compare your own fish to the photo. Hope it helps?

DSC_3667_1.jpg


Cheers,

Lee Nuttall

Great post Lee.
 
Thanks a million for the information Lee, I learned much on these species by/from you. Since you mentioned problems with the flash photography I recorded a video in case it gives more idea ( I still keep in mind that fish are small to give a clear idea). One of them shows the coloring clearly starting from 1:35 sec.

Freebryd, I loved your Zonatus... I think one of the main differentiation points is the coloring above the lateral line.

[video=youtube_share;AJcyofjltJw]http://youtu.be/AJcyofjltJw[/video]
 
I took some more pictures today... please let me know if anyone is more clear. To me they are not Fenestratus or Hartwegi, I am between Guttulatus and Zonatus.What do you think?

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