Jack Dempsey/Severum Hybrid or What's Wrong With My Severum?

[Seedy J]

I've got a 75g tank with a 4" JD, a 2.5-3" Heros severus (sold as "Curare" but might be Inirida), and 5x 2.5-4" silver dollars (Myleus schomburgkii). I'm 99% sure Jack is a male, not sure about the severum. The tank is well-filtered (30g sump) and the water is clean (~20 ppm nitrate before a water change on Saturday). pH is high (8.2-8.4), but I just got some peat moss to try to lower it. Severum and SDs have been together since about October last year, and the JD is a more recent addition (January-ish).

Since Thursday or Friday last week, the severum has been spending a lot of time hiding in the corner and not eating. No other signs of illness, and the other fish aren't picking on it (at least, not that I've seen). The last time I saw a cichlid behave like this it ended up being pregnant so... any chance Jack got the severum pregnant? Is that even possible? Failing that, what might be wrong with the severum?

 

[d033ie]

A lot can happen when the lights go out. I really don't think that type of breeding could happen and if it did please! let us know a.s.a.p.
The ph can affect a fish, but also note that adding an aggressive fish to an already working system. Can and will cause a faster reaction to the existing fish in the tank. Sometimes if i'm not too sure i turn the lights out, with something on in the distance and keep a close eye. Definitely keep us posted!

 

[Zanzag]

Sounds like your jd claimed the tank as his. S.A. and C.A cichlids cant hybridize is my understanding.

 

[MrsE88]

Cichlids don’t get pregnant. They can get eggy, but not pregnant. The male fertilizes the eggs externally after the female lays them.

Will it eat if you drop food right in front of it?

 

[neutrino]

Agree that aggression happens overnight at times, in daylight or with lights on you may not see it. Some aggressive species, like JDs, don't always show it when they're small, a combination that seems to work with juvies can change once they get a little size to them.

Also, if it's either H. severus or inirida, both are softer water, lower pH species, I've been told inirida can get HITH in hard water / higher pH (a respected importer). So, whether or not that's the current issue, I wouldn't personally keep either type in that pH.

Otherwise, hard to know without being there to see the fish in person. What are you feeding?

 

[Serpentine]

Agreed that it's likely territorial aggression developing in your Jack Dempsey as it matures that's keeping your severum in hiding. JDs and severums don't really go together, especially as the only 2 cichlids in the tank. JDs are more aggressive Central Americans and severums are comparatively peaceful South Americans. I would suggest separating them since he's probably beating up the severum.

Cichlids are not livebearers like guppies, mollies or platys so they don't get pregnant as such. Females become gravid with eggs and then lay them on a flat rock or in a cave, where the male then externally fertilizes them. The female or both parents care for the eggs until they hatch and then look after the fry. They tend to be secretive and try to hide the eggs and wrigglers from predators (including you). This may have given the appearance that your female was pregnant since you didn't see the eggs and she didn't emerge until after the fry were free swimming.

With regard to pH, that is REALLY high. In addition to the peat moss you can put in driftwood to help lower it. Seachem makes a product called Neutral Regulator that can help bring the pH down toward 7.0 (neutral). Better yet, you can use an RO unit for your aquarium water. Those designed for aquarium use actually don't cost very much.

ETA: Interspecies shenanigans do sometimes occur and cichlids can hybridize. But even on the off chance that this happened and your severum is guarding a nest (unlikely though), the eggs are probably sterile because SA and CA cichlids are--with only one exception that comes to mind--incompatible.

 

[Rocksor]

Before trying to lower the PH. Get a GH/KH liquid test and determine the hardness of your water and a TDS meter. A high KH will prevent peat and driftwood from lowering the PH. For instance, to lower the KH of 8 degrees to half that amount, I needed about 2 cups of peat with 24 cups of water.

 

[Seedy J]

Thanks for the replies!

Cichlids don’t get pregnant. They can get eggy, but not pregnant. The male fertilizes the eggs externally after the female lays them.

Will it eat if you drop food right in front of it?

My bad, I shouldn't have used the term "pregnant". I've got a Malawi cichlid tank that I thought was all male... then one day my Cyrtocara moorii who hadn't eaten for about a month spit out some fry, so I was wondering if that might be the case with the severum too. Sounds like we can rule that possibility out.

No, the severum isn't eating even when there's food right in front of it. It tried to eat a veggie pellet yesterday and spit it back out, but it usually does that with veggie pellets.

Agree that aggression happens overnight at times, in daylight or with lights on you may not see it... What are you feeding?

Overnight aggression sounds likely. In the morning I feed spirulina flakes and NLS Algaemax, same in the evening plus Hikari Vibra Bites. The severum doesn't care for the NLS but likes the spirulina and Vibra Bites (when it's eating, anyway).

Before trying to lower the PH. Get a GH/KH liquid test and determine the hardness of your water and a TDS meter. A high KH will prevent peat and driftwood from lowering the PH. For instance, to lower the KH of 8 degrees to half that amount, I needed about 2 cups of peat with 24 cups of water.

I have a GH/KH test... haven't tested the water for a while and I don't remember the exact numbers, but the water is definitely on the hard side. Driftwood and catappa leaves don't lower the pH. I even used Discus Buffer once and brought the pH (in an empty tank) down to 7.0... and it was back up to 8.2 within 24 hours. Great tip with the peat moss - I've read and watched plenty of guides on how to use it but none of them say how much to use!

Sounds like separating the JD and severum is the way to go. I've been wanting to move my 10" pike (crenicichla lenticulata) into the 75g. I'd prefer to move the JD to another tank, but I know the pike has the potential to be even more aggressive so I guess it would be better to move the severum somewhere else. Or would it make more sense to have the pike and severum together since they're both soft/blackwater fish, and move the JD?

 

[Zanzag]

I would think with much more similar water requirements the sev and pike will have a better chance of cohabitating. But with that size difference i cant say its not risky.

 

[ryansmith83]

If your severum is spitting out food then it sounds like it’s ill, possibly from stress. Dark colors and hanging in one place back that up.