Jag tank size?

[Frank Castle]

LogiBear. If you want an aggressive predatory cichlid to keep solo in a 75 why not get a male salvini.These are stunning looking fish when mature.They get to a decent size but won't dwarf your tank.

I still see grey areas like If your fish "SHOULD" have the 150g, but you can only afford the 125g-135g, it doesn't make much of a difference and so on and so on. Those tanks you post are badass, but I would have done things differently. Just my opinion. I wouldn't call everyone else's input "ignorant".... duanes even agrees that an extra foot won't mean nearly as much to the fish as it will to us. You work different angles, you see what gets along with whatever other stuff.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

The grey areas you mention from 150 to 135 I agree won't make much difference.
We are talking about a potentially 20inch predator in a 75.
That's not a grey area that's just wrong.
I don't think my way of keeping fish is the only way and if people want to mix different species then fine.All I am saying is a four foot tank should be the minimum for the smallest of c/a cichlids and a jag long term in a 75 is ridiculous.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I never said everyone's input was ignorant.
I think it's ignorant to ignore the majority of opinion.
When experienced fishkeepers such as Rd give an opinion and so do the majority yes it is ignorant to dismiss that opinion.

 

[Frank Castle]

The grey areas you mention from 150 to 135 I agree won't make much difference.
We are talking about a potentially 20inch predator in a 75.
That's not a grey area that's just wrong.
I don't think my way of keeping fish is the only way and if people want to mix different species then fine.All I am saying is a four foot tank should be the minimum for the smallest of c/a cichlids and a jag long term in a 75 is ridiculous.

I never said everyone's input was ignorant.
I think it's ignorant to ignore the majority of opinion.
When experienced fishkeepers such as Rd give an opinion and so do the majority yes it is ignorant to dismiss that opinion.

Believe me, I agree with most of what you guys all say, and I'm just on the fence about a few things, like you're saying a 40B isn't big enough for a pair of Convicts or Jewels? No doubt, of course they could always have more space, but are we really gonna harp on "Little Billy" (arbitrary name, hypothetical person) who has a gimpy leg and can only afford a used 29g and a free pair of Convicts his friend bred? I'm not. People got it rough all over, sometimes people just do the best they can with what they got. When you take in animals that people don't want or possibly may end up in a trash dumpster or worse, you end up dealing with animal-upgrades on a regular basis......but you're stilling giving them much better than what they had or woulda had. We just do things at the pace we can do them.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I can kind of get on board with what you are saying but that is a slightly different story to this thread.
Some circumstances are forced or a compromise, this topic is about choice.A guy with a 75 choosing a fish capable of 20"
That's not a rescue or a story about poor little Billy, it's a completely different ball game.
I know a lot of you disagree with my statement that a 4 foot tank should be the minimum for a pair of convicts but it's one I stand by.
A fully grown mature male convict is no tiddler and can really pack a punch .
I hope I don't offend anyone who disagrees with my views on tank size,I just believe these to be sensible guide lines for the welfare of the fish.
Like I have said before the hobby offers many cichlids suitable and desirable for smaller tanks.

 

[jaws7777]

The reason you were getting negative results on other forums is because you were on other forums.

Thats a Fact right there.

Problem with some sites is egos and pride get in the way of discussion. Some just cant handle being disagreed with.

I dont think theres anything wrong with growing the fish out in the 75. If op is a responsible fish keeper (im not saying he isnt) then he'll know when its time to upgrade the tank. Nothing wrong with learning from first hand experience.

I would say try it with the intent of having to upgrade down the road since there is a great possibility that the fish will outgrow the tank

 

[cichlidfish]

I can kind of get on board with what you are saying but that is a slightly different story to this thread.
Some circumstances are forced or a compromise, this topic is about choice.A guy with a 75 choosing a fish capable of 20"
That's not a rescue or a story about poor little Billy, it's a completely different ball game.
I know a lot of you disagree with my statement that a 4 foot tank should be the minimum for a pair of convicts but it's one I stand by.
A fully grown mature male convict is no tiddler and can really pack a punch .
I hope I don't offend anyone who disagrees with my views on tank size,I just believe these to be sensible guide lines for the welfare of the fish.
Like I have said before the hobby offers many cichlids suitable and desirable for smaller tanks.

I agree w/ everything you've said. IMO people only care what they want and not what's best for the animal.

 

[ehh]

Some people say sure and some say no, its in the middle. So please domt think im counting out your, or anyones, opinions.

then we have

A female Jag could live a long time in a 75, not a male I've seen 16" male jags and they don't look comfortable in 125's. your right about them growing slower but if you end up with a male (because their very hard to sex when small) you might get 12-14 months before he going to need a bigger tank. Just my opinion of course.

I kept a mated pair of jags in a 75 for about 2 years but I knew they would out grow the tank. When I got them, the male was around 9", female was about 7". They got along well until the male hit about 14". The tank was just too cramped then. That said, you could most likely keep a female jag in a 75 for life. Males just seem to dwarf anything smaller than a 125 and enjoy the space to swim.

I agree with what everyone has already said, just keep in mind, they sometimes get quite large. I had an 18" to 19" male before, was a beast.

Damned if you do, damned if you don,nt thread, in my world jag needs to be in a 125g or better. Just my humble opinion.

From personal experience jags seem to get longer than oscars and most medevils that I've seen. I think it's just sad to see big fish in short 4' tanks, they really can't do much more than float in place. I guess if you did a single female you could get away with a 75. However with how cheap you can score a used 125, I'd go that route.

I wouldn't even contemplate keeping a jag in a 75.Its a no brainer. Can you imagine what a dull crappy existance that would be.
If you can only go up to a 75, keep something firemouth sized.Why people feel the need to put fish as big as jags in these little tanks I will never know.

I personally consider Stanzz as an extremist/purist. I have disagreed with him a number of times on this forum with regards to others husbandry practices, because not everything is black and white in this hobby.

Having said that, in this instance, I happen to agree with him 100%. Jags are not suited for 75 gallon tanks, and anyone that has kept one long term knows this. Jags are open water predators, so even if they did stay the size of more of a cave dwelling species such as a midas, the comparison still doesn't equate due to the behavioral differences between the species. Some fish sit idle for much of the day, other more open water predatory species are on high alert cruise mode 24/7. Choose a different species, or upgrade in tank size, are the two most sensible options available to you. Good luck.

I am also a bit of a purist, I believe you need a "minimum" of 10 gallons of space per inch of cichlid, or it will probably loll in a corner and will do nothing but blankly stare out. The idea that the simple ability of a fish to turn around without hitting the sides of a tank is sufficient to maintain a healthy life is to me, short sighted.
So to me, a 12" jag should be kept in nothing smaller than 120 gallon tank.

The options are simple:

1) keep jags in a 75 and they suffer (because it's a crappy way to live)
2) don't get jags and you suffer (because you want them)

The choices you make define who you are.

just to be clear.... there is no middle ground on whether you should attempt to house a male jag in a 75 gallon long term.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

LogiBear I am curious as to what your thoughts are on keeping the jag after reading this thread.
Do you still plan on getting one or will you choose another species?

 

[pops]

well lets post my pair. my male a slag of meat, no way in a 75. vid taken today.