Jardini/Asian Hybrid?

[IoStrisciare]

no one would do it as it wld ruin the already diluted formosus gene.

the outcome would be highly ugly hence no one has tried or wants to try.

Anyway... unless u want a very ugly hybrid i don't think you'd want a go.

 

[jbnebres]

I'm hoping one of our asian experts can answer a few questions for me. I know that the asian and the jardini are the same species (Scleropages), just different specific animals, so theoretically, it should be possible to cross them?

1. has anyone ever atempted to cross breed a jardini with an asian?
2. would the hybrid still be illegal in the US?
3. would the jardini gene be the dominant traits, or would the formosus?
4. is anyone artificially inseminating arowana?

thanks.

I was about to ask and post about this, until i found this older thread. Not only has it answered
some my own questions, it also has plenty of useful information. I call this my in-to-the-future
comments.

1. I have never heard or read about anyone publicly stating that they are breeding hybrid
arowanas- but I'll bet someone in the past has tried- just cant prove it. haha

3. If by chance a hybrid ever exists, it's characteristics would be dependent on which traits are
stronger in both gene pools. it may vary in color, pattern, shape, size, temperament, and the
endless list of characteristics that can occur. Thats a huge spectrum. It would be pretty crazy to
see asian colors on african, sa, or aus arowanas.

To go off on a tangent really quick- what changes in habitat and continent manifested the
different colors and behavior in the first place? Are the colors primarily influenced by genes, the
diet, thehabitat, the enviroment, or a reaction to other animals?

4. I think this question is very much like number 1- If one's goals was to actively pursue the
hybridization of the species and has repeatedly failed at pairing and breeding them in ponds or
large aquariums, if the money and the market existed, i'm sure someone would try.

2. This is the question that first brought me to this thread. almost every fishkeeper in the west
has wanted to be able to raise asian arowanas. But what about the value of the hybrid arowana.
If it were to ever successfully occur, i'm sure the different hybrids- a/aus, sa/asian, etc -would
create their own value scale, not only as rare hybrids, but also as arowanas that share different
traits with another species.

So, would the hybrid arowana still be illegal in the US or basically anywhere?
Would the location of hybridization be a factor for legalization? In the unlikely chance that it will
ever happen, or that there will be even be worthwhile market demand for it- If it ever happens,
it wont be in some farm or laboratory in asia, but some crazy mfk person with his/her monstrous
pond/tank full of different arowanas. And since the parents may be farm bred, the offspring are
animals that can't possibly exist within nature. While scleropages were probably in the same
continent at one point, i don't know if anyone is releasing nonnative aros to the wild, in other
continents these days..

Sorry for the long read- And to address number 2- fantasy hybrid arowanas should be legal.
If responsible breeders were to carryout such a feat, it should be regulated only through existing
farm bred arowana populations.

 

[AU_Arowana-RG]

no one would do it as it wld ruin the already diluted formosus gene.

the outcome would be highly ugly hence no one has tried or wants to try.

Anyway... unless u want a very ugly hybrid i don't think you'd want a go.

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, my friend.

Anywho, it is possible, but getting it to work may seem to be a challenge.

I see that the main problem would be the breeding habits. If I recall correctly, Male Asians carry the fertilised eggs, but Female Jars carry the eggs as well. So if you had to think of the two main situations, we'd get:

1) A pair that would both carry eggs. (?)
2) A pair that would have no egg carriers.

How this will work would be something for the breeder to discover.

As far as I can tell, I see that the only, easily achievable Arowana hybrid would be a SilverxBlack.

Hope more developments on this come, though.

 

[Mr.Nooby]

well going back into time to pangia austrialia and south asia are connected. as times goes by these fishes are geographically isolated. even tho geographically isolated they didn't really gone through much evolution because the enviroment never really forces them to change their eating behavior sexual behavior etc.....austrialians animals never gone through much evolutions at all. tempurature in northern aus and southern asia are relatively simular. thus you can say these two species are generally the same species before and thus never gone through much evolution. i can say that their genetics is not too far off to hybridize. what is preventing these fish from hybridizing in the wild is geographically. by being geographically isolated they might develop spawning time differently thus if ever to be interbreed in the wild will not possible. example is trout in mn. the wild trout would spawn in the spring while the trout raised in the farm will spawn in the fall time. same species of fish just spawn at different time so people just decided to call them different species. 2 example large mouth bass and small mouth bass. hybrid to get mean mouth bass. they breed at different time but some how they manage to interbreed. galapagos island finches are geographically isolated. they then go through evolution which prevents them from interbreeding. ....my opinion is that jardini and asian arow can interbreed. never gone through much evolutions just geographic isolation. maybe if breed they might get us back to wat was before hahaha joking about that but iono who it will look like tho. oh well. just my theory here.

 

[Mr.Nooby]

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, my friend.

Anywho, it is possible, but getting it to work may seem to be a challenge.

I see that the main problem would be the breeding habits. If I recall correctly, Male Asians carry the fertilised eggs, but Female Jars carry the eggs as well. So if you had to think of the two main situations, we'd get:

1) A pair that would both carry eggs. (?)
2) A pair that would have no egg carriers.

How this will work would be something for the breeder to discover.

As far as I can tell, I see that the only, easily achievable Arowana hybrid would be a SilverxBlack.

Hope more developments on this come, though.

well male carries for asian and females carries for aus.. so a male asian and a female aus we be good but not a female asian and a male aus lol haha

 

[ausarow]

it is highly unlikley that they would ever cross breed. above poster is correct that on the surface not a lot has changed, compared to what you might see elsewhere for such a time..but its an OLD fish and the exception, changes have still occurred beyond the ability to cross. look at your scale number and your shape and finnage number etc.
a lot of change has occured for this to happen to scale row number and fins.

you can try and find an example that will breed across species, but it would not be sharing the common ancestor from 140 million years ago.
the new proposed species for formosus will crossbreed as we know. but these are much more closely related. i think that the species name trip was to be brought to the table this cites meeeting of the parties..see how that goes yet, but for now like oddball mentioned ealier (and i say this without rubbishing the scientists) this would only mean that "species" will now cross because they got out their DNA kits and could show the difference enough to stick them in a new species column.
it only further proves the un-likelihood of a cross between a jar.


think how long ago the different areas of SE asia where together. not so long to stop hybrid between red and green and golden. red was on its way from golden. given more time, like 100 million years, it would be. somewhere along the way they would choose not to mate. thats true even before you get the sperm hits egg yet does not work situation. its not like a carp that will spawn that day it finds a goldfish under the right environment triggers. its a long term courtship.

looking at cross continent situations.
they have different spawning cues and behaviours post and pre fert so it would be very hard to get them to pair naturally. they dont even like hanging out.
they have different social behaviours. jars tend to fly solo. that comes from difference in river rains etc. put simply, the asians have become refined to their "new" environment where schooling was ok. jars are exposed to some much harsher stuff.
they become brutes. then look at your leis. they will take such cold waters.
i dont know for sure yet, but i think maybe they are the oldest of these.

you could follow the ripening off the eggs, rip your female out and fertilize with another specie male from another pond that had something going.
the thing is it would not even work mixing the milt and eggs in a bowl. in 140 million years things change too much even in that regard.
as for natural spawning. its been tried. ive heard it from the horses mouth. that being with male formosus and female jardini and vice versa. they proved what they know now.
have a think about this. there are tens of thousands of jars all over asia.
no hybrids. that would even be where they are in ponds, on farms and let go into waters with asians. theres pictures of them in the same ponds.
there are also NO hybrid jars and leis in australia with people moving the species about under government stocking programs into waters that hold the other species. and they are likely much closer related but not as close as reds are to greens.
no american cross. none for any of the family.
then you may think that a jar from papua might be closer to say a golden.
what about the 50 thousand odd jars that came from papau and been sent to singpaore.
are there not jars in singapore impoundments along with golden/greens etc? there is a barrier for sure.

im not going to say its totally impossible for a giant company to spend vast sums on scientists messing with eggs and milt to create a new race, you know what they could do these days with genes. but dont hold your breath. they have tried naturally.
also some of the biggest players in the industry do not see this as a great idea because they like pures, or they like the colour crosses. there is more money in the other stuff. think what the jars etc are worth and how regarded they are compared.
you would be much better having your scientists working on bright colours, long tails etc. and something that is more easily attainable and even possible. thats where the specific cross work will go.

 

[ausarow]

sometimes both the male and female will hold. i wouldnt bet against it happening in jars either occasionally. if it were the whole problem, you could just get a male formosus and a female jar and then youd have two holders on hand or pinch the eggs and whisk em away. it more so shows that old father time has changed things.

 

[aussiemonsters]

Female Leis holding ? never seen this.