Just killed one of my best fish... :(

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DaveB

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Feb 22, 2008
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Miami
So my elderly Uaru female has been getting picked on by what appears to be an Uaru sp. Orange pair. They grew up as a group of 6 oranges and her, but I sold 4 of the oranges because of the bio load. Anyway, after being bullied she stopped eating for a while. I QTed her and rehabbed her, but that made her picky about food, and she wasn't eating any of the usual pellets that the tank gets.

So today I decided to bring out the big guns and brought down some freeze dried krill and frozen krill. The Arowana went to town on it and she ate eagerly like old times.

On a whim, I tested the water for nitrite and nitrate - I had just been doing some filter cleaning and added another one and was curious - and got 0 and 10, respectively. Pretty good for a week since a WC, which I had set up to do tomorrow morning.

Three hours later I came downstairs and my best Satanoperca Leucosticta was dead.

The other fish had slightly elevated breathing, but nothing out of the ordinary for post-feeding. The Arowana was visibly breathing though, and that's usually my clue that the filters aren't keeping up. I tested and the ammonia showed at .25. Maybe that was on its way down... it has been maybe 4 hours at this point. Seems like a classic overfeed, right?

Here's the thing: I didn't overfeed. It was less than the usual amount... just different food.

What do you think is more likely:

1) My recent filter rinse and addition somehow screwed up my BB. (After the rinse the FX5 didn't restart and it took me a few hours and several motor and impeller cleanings to get it going, during some of that time the media was not submerged, though it never dried out.)
2) Frozen krill contains more ammonia than usual
3) Freeze Dried Krill, which was old and hadn't been used in forever, was spoiled and/or contains extra ammonia
4) A bit of freezer burn on the frozen stuff indicates some other chemical reaction that is toxic
5) The fish choked on a giant piece of krill and it wasn't the ammonia at all (though obviously the filters still aren't keeping up)
6) Some combination of the above

I'm at a loss. None of those factors alone should cause this. The tank was clean and in great shape and the fish all healthy. He was the largest and healthiest of the eartheaters, by far.

This really sucks. I've had some stress because of my new discus in another tank, but this tank had been going really well.
 
it took me a few hours and several motor and impeller cleanings to get it going

Your BB died.
 
Younglin;4850938; said:
Your BB died.

That would make sense. But...

Of that few hours, much was spent in the full filter,before I discovered the issue. It was really only out for maybe two ten minute stretches while I flushed it of sand and drained it to clean the impeller.

I filled it with tap water and added prime, stirred, and re-inserted the media, which sounds bad (chlorine) but has never been an issue before.

Maybe I killed just some, but that was enough to make a difference, and a week of feedings lowered his tolerance for trace ammonia...

I'll dose stability either way, I guess.
 
The brief amount of time out of water will have killed off some of the bb no matter what, and the media just sitting in the filter did as well, since there is a difference between stagnant water and flowing water, as the bacteria need that constant supply of dissolved oxygen in the water. To get a clearer pic, just think of what happens to fish when the flow is taken away, they start gasping, and if long enough, dying, not much different here except with bacteria. Rarely enough to do anything however.
Then guessing the prime didn't get rid of all the chlorine, and then when you added the media back in, it ended up not being much different then rinsing your filters in tap water.
Wondering and not saying it was a complete dieoff, but maybe there was enough die off of bb plus the bb removed with the sand to put you on a mini-cycle, and throw your ammonia to .25
Although like you said, at .25 while not healthy for a fish longevity, it shouldn't have immediate effects like that, unless the level did spike very briefly.

Another thing you said is you just put in new filtration, could it be that chemicals possibly got on the filter itself before hand?

Also, when feeding, you did this with the filters hooked back up and running right? As otherwise having the fx5 off for a few hours after feeding would be a problem right there.
 
Sorry to hear your loss Dave :(. I think it was something else - 0.25 ammonia is not going to kill your fish within 3 hours.

Your BB are fine - some might have died but the population should boom back in no time. If a brief unfavorable condition can kill off all bacteria, there wouldn't have been any left in the world. They have all kinds of stress responses to help them survive...tough little buggers.


Younglin;4850938; said:
Your BB died.
You don't know what you are talking about. Stop pretending.
 
Sorry for the loss of your Uaru - that sucks large.

It appears you are close to your tank conditions, so I would wager as well that a bio failure wasn't the cause. You mentioned a few potential causes associated with the krill. Some of those had not occurred to me before, particularly the two associated with spoilage/age or freezer burn. Has anyone else encountered either of these with such a reaction? The reason I ask is I always seem to find older hunks of krill in my freezer from time to time in various stages of "condition" :) and I always toss them in tanks of my adult fish (Amphilophus species) with no apparent negative reaction. But these possible causes to your Uaru has me now thinking twice about this. Any exeriences here? (Sorry OP if this becomes a derail, but I believe its on point with your question.)
 
baldtaxguy;4851432;4851432 said:
Sorry for the loss of your Uaru - that sucks large.

It appears you are close to your tank conditions, so I would wager as well that a bio failure wasn't the cause. You mentioned a few potential causes associated with the krill. Some of those had not occurred to me before, particularly the two associated with spoilage/age or freezer burn. Has anyone else encountered either of these with such a reaction? The reason I ask is I always seem to find older hunks of krill in my freezer from time to time in various stages of "condition" :) and I always toss them in tanks of my adult fish (Amphilophus species) with no apparent negative reaction. But these possible causes to your Uaru has me now thinking twice about this. Any exeriences here? (Sorry OP if this becomes a derail, but I believe its on point with your question.)
It's not a derail, that was my question too. I wonder if there's some way I can do an experiment about it.

The fish that died wasn't the Uaru; the different feeding was to entice her to eat (and totally just playing to her snobbish pickiness... but I want her strong right now if the other two are pairing off). The one that died was the biggest/nicest satanoperca leucosticta.
 
DaveB;4851757; said:
It's not a derail, that was my question too. I wonder if there's some way I can do an experiment about it.

The fish that died wasn't the Uaru; the different feeding was to entice her to eat (and totally just playing to her snobbish pickiness... but I want her strong right now if the other two are pairing off). The one that died was the biggest/nicest satanoperca leucosticta.

Yes, sorry, I meant your leucosticta. Again, sorry for your loss.
 
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