Keeping a 6ft by 2ft by 2ft tank in an upstairs flat help

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I'm not a structural engineer, but I am a builder/developer of residential properties. What you're planning on doing makes me nervous. Do you own or rent? If you rent, I wouldn't do it. If you own, there are several ways to beef up floor joists, none of which are easy without cutting the first floor ceiling. If you must do it, then do it so that it spans the most joists possible, and do it on the stairwell wall or exterior wall, because even without looking at the prints, I can tell you that these are bearing walls. Also, if your home is old, you may have a subfloor made of 3/4" slat or tongue and groove planks. These are no good anymore. You can beef up your floor by going to Home Depot and getting a sheet of 3/4" advantech. No other plywood will do, as it will never match the ridigity of advantech. You can screw this down over hardwood, but if its carpet I would trace the tank stand and cut out the carpet, and then cut the advantech to fill the carpet hole. If you save the carpet peice you can seam it back in before you move out. The advantech will tie the floor joists together much more effectively and distribute weight more evenly. I would still be nervous, but taking these steps would allow me to sleep at night. Also it should go without saying that the stand needs to be "dead nuts level" and bolted to at least 2 studs. This does nothing to distribute the weight to the wall, but it keeps the load static since it doesn't rock when you walk by it. My .02


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skjl47 said:
Hello; here is the web address of an article that talks about the issue.

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html
My take is that the question can only be answered by someone with knowledge of structure actually having a look to see what you have and what condition it is in.
Click to expand...

Not knowledge of structure, knowledge of YOU'RE structure. If you could email me a copy of the "as-builts" I could tell you for sure if and where to put it. The term "they don't build em like they used to" is crap. The things I've seen in older homes would never fly in today's building codes.


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Thanks for the replies again, I'm just too busy to instantly reply.


http://www.funqa.com/engineering/518-Engineering.html - this website says 250kg per joist wouldn't bother it and 130kg per square metre is fine.

This is the problem I'm running into its like anything I'm getting mixed answers.

Unfortunately I rent the place if I had went out to buy a house/flat I would have gotten downstairs if flat for sure.

I really want the tank in my sitroom because the only other option would be to build a shed/cabinet and have it outside but what's the fun in that, I want it in my home (although I will have tanks in my garage later in the future, of course with a couple in the house though).

As far as I can gather the house itself is very strong as there is no creaks or anything of the kind, when I took this flat on it had no carpet (home housing one - similar to council if you want to know) and the floorboards were not rotted and were strong as they had sorted it all out, I spoke to my stepdad about having this size tank and he himself says its possible if I run it parallel to the joists and have a cabinet which supports all the tank not just the four corners, although he says its a ridiculous size tank that will weigh a ton, he's also told me that getting a structural engineer will cost a few hundred quid...

I find the whole subject really complex because some sites that say 90kg per square foot means that even a 4ft tank which is one of the most common size tanks is also too heavy when above ground floor.

Does anyone know the actual maximum kg a foot or square metre of floor can hold because the 90kg per foot or 130kg per metre is the minimum I'm presuming.

Also, there must be some weight in old bath tubs when full and with one or possibly two people, sofas with people sitting on them, bookcases when full, pianos, beds especially water ones and so on.

Concrete floors although able to take more weight must also have limit, surely?
 
Hello; It seems unlikely that any one on this forum can give you a good answer as we cannot see the structure first hand. The question of how much weight a floor can hold comes up quite often. Do a search to see the many threads.
My considered advice is to get someone (structural engineer, master builder, qualified contractor) to actually inspect the structure. Even with such an inspection I will also suggest that you run the notion of such a tank by the owner of the building as it is not your property. The owner may have someone in mind to do the inspection whose opinion he/she will accept. You could be and very likely will be liable for any damage caused by the tank from possible structural damage to damage from water. (You will spill/release water at some point.)

A rule of thumb for large tanks with water, stand, substrate and all may be around 12 pounds per gallon. Your comment about bathtubs being heavy is correct. Builders often add extra structural support under bathrooms for this reason.

If this floor capacity thread goes as many have in the past, you will likely get a number of posts that say things along the line of "go for it" or "it will be fine". Some will likely tell you what you appear to want to hear, but it seems unlikely that they can know for sure not having seen the actual structure for themselves. They will be guessing. Are you willing to risk the potential liability on advice over the internet?

Yes even concrete floors have a limit. Some concrete/cement floors on upper floors are no stronger than wood truss floors. I did some research on the subject a while back. Here are some links to what I found. If I recall, one discusses the cement/concrete floors.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php ((It is perhaps the easiest to follow. )

http://www.ehow.com/how_7485788_calculate-floor-load-capacity.html

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span...d=10&submit=Calculate+Maximum+Horizontal+Span

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=62845&page=10

I rented for several decades and was lucky enough to have a house with a basement cement floor for a time. The other years I had to go with small tanks in places to keep the landlord happy. I was in my 60's when I got my own place and can now do anything I wish. I have found that I am now just as careful to not damage my structure as I was to not damage the places that I rented.
Some on this and other forums have posted about sneaking big tanks into rentals without the owners knowledge. That seems a risky and possibly expensive plan.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
 
Vincentaquarium said:
Thanks for the replies again, I'm just too busy to instantly reply.


http://www.funqa.com/engineering/518-Engineering.html - this website says 250kg per joist wouldn't bother it and 130kg per square metre is fine.

This is the problem I'm running into its like anything I'm getting mixed answers.

Unfortunately I rent the place if I had went out to buy a house/flat I would have gotten downstairs if flat for sure.

I really want the tank in my sitroom because the only other option would be to build a shed/cabinet and have it outside but what's the fun in that, I want it in my home (although I will have tanks in my garage later in the future, of course with a couple in the house though).

As far as I can gather the house itself is very strong as there is no creaks or anything of the kind, when I took this flat on it had no carpet (home housing one - similar to council if you want to know) and the floorboards were not rotted and were strong as they had sorted it all out, I spoke to my stepdad about having this size tank and he himself says its possible if I run it parallel to the joists and have a cabinet which supports all the tank not just the four corners, although he says its a ridiculous size tank that will weigh a ton, he's also told me that getting a structural engineer will cost a few hundred quid...

I find the whole subject really complex because some sites that say 90kg per square foot means that even a 4ft tank which is one of the most common size tanks is also too heavy when above ground floor.

Does anyone know the actual maximum kg a foot or square metre of floor can hold because the 90kg per foot or 130kg per metre is the minimum I'm presuming.

Also, there must be some weight in old bath tubs when full and with one or possibly two people, sofas with people sitting on them, bookcases when full, pianos, beds especially water ones and so on.

Concrete floors although able to take more weight must also have limit, surely?
Click to expand...

A domestic concrete floor is built to withstand 1.25 kilo newtons of force per square meter of floor area a tonne is 10 kilo newtons. This is what two structural engineers have told me.


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When I say concrete that's talking block and beam with a screed top. This is what my flat is I wanted to fill my 80x24x30 but its much to heavy even for a concrete block and beam. I have spoke to a structural engineer.


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skjl47 said:
Hello; It seems unlikely that any one on this forum can give you a good answer as we cannot see the structure first hand. The question of how much weight a floor can hold comes up quite often. Do a search to see the many threads.
My considered advice is to get someone (structural engineer, master builder, qualified contractor) to actually inspect the structure. Even with such an inspection I will also suggest that you run the notion of such a tank by the owner of the building as it is not your property. The owner may have someone in mind to do the inspection whose opinion he/she will accept. You could be and very likely will be liable for any damage caused by the tank from possible structural damage to damage from water. (You will spill/release water at some point.)

A rule of thumb for large tanks with water, stand, substrate and all may be around 12 pounds per gallon. Your comment about bathtubs being heavy is correct. Builders often add extra structural support under bathrooms for this reason.

If this floor capacity thread goes as many have in the past, you will likely get a number of posts that say things along the line of "go for it" or "it will be fine". Some will likely tell you what you appear to want to hear, but it seems unlikely that they can know for sure not having seen the actual structure for themselves. They will be guessing. Are you willing to risk the potential liability on advice over the internet?

Yes even concrete floors have a limit. Some concrete/cement floors on upper floors are no stronger than wood truss floors. I did some research on the subject a while back. Here are some links to what I found. If I recall, one discusses the cement/concrete floors.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php ((It is perhaps the easiest to follow. )

http://www.ehow.com/how_7485788_calculate-floor-load-capacity.html

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl

http://www.awc.org/calculators/span...d=10&submit=Calculate+Maximum+Horizontal+Span

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=62845&page=10

I rented for several decades and was lucky enough to have a house with a basement cement floor for a time. The other years I had to go with small tanks in places to keep the landlord happy. I was in my 60's when I got my own place and can now do anything I wish. I have found that I am now just as careful to not damage my structure as I was to not damage the places that I rented.
Some on this and other forums have posted about sneaking big tanks into rentals without the owners knowledge. That seems a risky and possibly expensive plan.
Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
Click to expand...

Yes you're right nobody on here can give me a definite answer whether or not my floor will hold or not, I am getting mixed answers from people on the net and in real life as expected.

After doing a little research this topic definitely is one of the most widely discussed and somewhat controversial in the aquarium keeping life.

I am going to get a structural engineer out - hopefully this weekend.

I'm prepared to pay the £££ to help me sleep at night.

As regards to informing my landlord, when I took up the flat I mentioned having a large aquarium and she said no problems just I'm not allowed dogs as its an upstairs flat.

I have home insurance in response to being liable if any damage happened.

Yes, I know that it's built stronger where bath tubs are put but that is still an awful lot of weight to go through the ceiling,

According to an aquarium volume calculator it holds 450 litres of water, roughly 108 stone (excluding stand weight, gravel, rocks, filters, etc, etc) so actually a tad bit more.

How many gallons is this? About 180 with everything included?

Yeah I don't want to risk by just taking someone's word for it from the Internet.

If necessary, I will strengthen the joists.

I will take a look at the links you have sent me.

I'm not going to sneakily move in the tank, I would hate for anything to happen you know further down the line...

It's a nightmare in situations like this to rent, wish I had my own place at times.

Thanks for your input, it's helpful to read.
 
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