Leaf Litter in geophagus tank

[Lilyann]

I was considering adding some dried oak leaves and or catalpa leaves to release tannins in my tank.
But, was wondering if it would be beneficial in any way or would just be an aesthetic choice in this situation.
I also read this on Simply Fish that made me think twice.

"Leaf litter is a typical feature of the natural environment but not really recommended in aquaria because the feeding behaviour of Geophagus spp. tends to cause an excess of partially-decomposed material in suspension which not only looks unsightly but can block filter and pump mechanisms."

These are the fish in this tank:
geophagus sveni
phenacogrammus aurantiacus
hyphessobrycon pulchripinnis
brochis splendens
hypoptopoma gulare
otocinclus cocama

will be adding in next month:
pterophyllum altum

What do you think? Would the tannins be beneficial?
Here is my tank:

 

[neutrino]

I've done oak leaves and geos, I like the look and didn't find it a problem. Sure, eventually they start breaking up, but it takes a while and there certainly wasn't an issue with "material in suspension" in the water in my case, which makes it sound tiny bits clouding the water. Ime how far you want to let them decay is controllable by you, in terms of at what point you want take them out or replace them, so not a problem for me and not a big deal for my filters.

Personally, I came to prefer to clean them and briefly stick them in hot to boiling water for the piece of mind of having them sterilized. But even with that, ime some leaves (and some collected driftwood) might get a sort of whitish growth on them in the first few days, not sure what this is, but I didn't find this an issue and it would go away after a few days.

 

[Lilyann]

Okay, Ill give it a try. Thank you for posting your experience with oak leaves in your own tank with geophagus.
Im thinking that it will mostly be of benefit for the Angels when I do get them.

 

[ahud]

I use leaves a lot. As the leaves break down, they do make the substrate unsightly if you don't like the "swampy look".

I would start with only a few leaves until you see how they break down. Some oak leaves last longer than others as well. If I recall correctly, red oak lasts longer than white. You can use Magnolia leaves as well. If you go that route, let the magnolia leaves sit in a bucket because they tend to give off a scum at first.

I have never worried about cleaning leaves. Leaves and their chemistry are talked about extensively on an Apistogramma forum if you want to read up about the chemistry behind the leaves. I forget if we can link to other forums or not?

 

[Lilyann]

Thank you. I will look that forum up-- searching with apistogramma.
I have a bag of red oak leaves I bought off of eBay that is aquarium safe, so I just rinsed them well and added to tank.
The geo's immediately started picking at them as if they were food and spitting them out! LOL! But, they eat anything that falls into the tank.

 

[neutrino]

Okay, Ill give it a try. Thank you for posting your experience with oak leaves in your own tank with geophagus.
Im thinking that it will mostly be of benefit for the Angels when I do get them.

Besides geos with leaves, I've also had wild Peru angelfish, severums, guianacara, and more.

Oak and some other leaves are supposed to have some of the same effects as driftwood, they can add a bit of tannins, mild anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties, in tanks without much buffering they can lower pH a little, but with my normal buffering for pH and KH, they haven't affected my pH (mid 7s). They can be colonized by algae or other micro-flora and micro-fauna and I've had fry and some older fish graze or pick on this.

When I use them it's fairly moderately, not like they cover the tank, and I tend to go ahead and let them decay some and just rinse any bits off filter intake strainers with water changes, but like I say how far to let them go is a matter of taste. I've never seen any difference at all in water clarity from suspended leaf particles or whatever, non-concern imo-- but who knows, maybe it can happen with nothing but sponge filters in the tank, or a lot more leaves than I use or a low flow filter or something.

 

[Lilyann]

I have two FX 6 filters- so probably will be fine. I just started out with a couple small handfuls, so ill see how that works. Thank you, I was hoping there was some benefits to adding leaves to the tank, it appears that there are.

 

[duanes]

I agree with the others, I have also put leaves (oak, magnolia, maple) in with geophagines, and yes they do break it down while sifting, and then you either have lots of suspended particulate, or you vacuum them out, and put new ones in. With sand as a base, the crumble is harder to work beneath, and I find its easier to vacuum right of the surface of the sand. I believe the detritus from leaf litter is also a normal part of their diet, and the tannins they injest may help inhibit pathogenic intestinal bacteria in the Geophagine gut.

The tannins are great bacterial inhibitors in general, and a natural part of their natural environment.
After boiling leaves, I would often filter the water and (when cooled) pour the tannin stained liquid in when doing water changes.

when broken down


when at a certain angle, if the sun hits the tank, its easy to spot the particulate

 

[Lilyann]

I agree with the others, I have also put leaves (oak, magnolia, maple) in with geophagines, and yes they do break it down while sifting, and then you either have lots of suspended particulate, or you vacuum them out, and put new ones in. With sand as a base, the crumble is harder to work beneath, and I find its easier to vacuum right of the surface of the sand. I believe the detritus from leaf litter is also a normal part of their diet, and the tannins they injest may help inhibit pathogenic intestinal bacteria in the Geophagine gut.

The tannins are great bacterial inhibitors in general, and a natural part of their natural environment.
After boiling leaves, I would often filter the water and (when cooled) pour the tannin stained liquid in when doing water changes.

when broken down


when at a certain angle, if the sun hits the tank, its easy to spot the particulate

That's excellent, thank you! Look at the color on those fish! beautiful...

 

[Lilyann]

Just a question on proper nomenclature: is a single geophagus fish considered properly called a "geophagine" and a group of the species together called "geophagines".
What would be the correct usage of geophagus, would it be only in the situation where the whole species and type are together? Such as, for example, geophagus sveni?