Lets see those Red isletas

[cichluvr]

Quite honestly, and without any intent to offend, you are mistaken. Morphological differences alone do not make a "new" species. Nor does species locale. If that was the case, we would have hundreds of sub species amongst fish like salvini, fenestratus, severums even umbees. A DNA analysis is a sound way to determine if this is a new species. Unless this has been done, there is really no debate here.
Secondly, this fish is not "isolated" in certain areas. Another member, as well as a collectors have told me that the fish is available in multiple water ways. Just because it was found in one area does not preclude it from being found in others.
Lastly, this is not an attack on credibility of any person or vendor. I am not even sure if it was stated that it was a new species. My interest in this is purely scientific and solely scientific. Collecting in Nicaragua is not a new thing. Countless people have done it for educational purposes and very few have sold for economic purposes simply because the economics of bringing in a fish that is commonly available is not a sustainable business model. Ultimately you will believe what you want to, and it's your money to spend but to say this is a new species is not likely without the proper scientific protocol.


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[RD.]

If that comment was directed at me, I believe you're the one that is mistaken. I never said that these 'Isleta" fish are a new species. I don't believe that Jeff has ever stated that, either. Obviously you missed the point.

My interest in this is purely scientific and solely scientific.

As is mine, which is why when I view fish from the midas complex I do so with an open mind, and accept the science when it becomes available. For you to state that these are common barred citrinellus is no more valid than someone who states that they are a new species. Which is exactly why in my previous comment I stated:

I personally think that Jeff did a credible job describing those fish, and their collection location, without making any assumptions as others have done in this discussion. .

 

[bigguapote]

Like I said before I caught many barred Citrinellus in Nicaragua with color, I didn't go to isletas, where ever that is? What is the difference between this fish and Citrinellus? there are numerous islands (isletas) in the lake, it appears to be a trade name to get a few more dollars....I love high price fish venders....

I don't know who this joker is, but he's bent on attempting to prove his superiority and making unjustified fish cost analogies, at my expense it seems.

So if a little more information may clarify and not muddy waters, I will offer.

The midas I received from Las Isletas many years ago were collected and shipped by at-the-time Univ. of Nicaragua professors/researchers who have cumulatively performed (and continue to do so) extensive work on the Nicaraguan Amphilophus complex (see McKaye, Stauffer, et al).
My contact stressed to me the midas cichlids they collected in this particular area behind Las Isletas should be designated as different from and not to be mixed with the general Nicaraguan midas cichlid population in the trade at the time.

They collected these fish exclusively in a shallow, turbid (not clear waters), where muddy substrate and heavy plant growth predominated.
This is unlike the deeper, more clear, boulder-strewn habitats from which Lake Nicaragua citrinellus are typically associated.
All ages of this morph were found in this area, and not immediately outside of it. So it was not a breeding ground for adults, nor a nursery for young.

For anyone who's read about the midas species complex in the Nicaraguan great lakes, this is a prime example of how sympatric speciation can begin. In other words, a new species can form by exploiting a different environment adjacent to or within but or not physically separated from the original form. The new form drifts apart from the established species by ecological speciation.

As proven time and again, this has and continues to occur at mind-boggling rates in the Nicaraguan crater lakes.

Incidentally, I've provided Nicaraguan fish for further studies to Elmer, Meyer, et al as well. Keeping tabs on these forms as I've tried to do does indeed provide a benefit to researchers as well as aquarists.

So there's a quick 'Isletas' midas cichlid history, for what it's worth.

 

[RD.]

Very interesting, thanks for adding that info, Jeff.

 

[petspoiler]

Interesting. Thank you!