Let's Talk Poop

[Trouser Cough]

I've pondered fish waste over the decades and my thoughts have shifted multiple times based on having watched others and how they handle their tanks.

In the early years I was inclined to change out the soiled floss in the tiny corner filters and replace the "activated carbon" at the same time. I did that regularly and my benchmark was that if it started to look gross; it was time.

Then I pondered the concept of what my big boy Eheim filters were doing and that they weren't removing waste from the water column but rather pulling waste out of my field of vision. The concept seemed gross so I cleaned out those canisters regularly (or at least clear out what seemed like the gross part to me).

Then a comment spawned this thread:

w/c schedule 90-95% per week. Filter cleanings 3x-4x per week.

Then I bought a few of Eheim's largest filters and noticed that they were poorly designed with a consumable silicone flappy bit inside that seemed like a nuisance compared to prior decades experience w/ the old school Eheim canisters. I gave my Eheim stuff away and replaced them w/ a dozen FX5's and FX6's and began noticing how others treat their tanks w/ the same filter. One of the things that struck me was that several people that know fish better than I don't service their filters but for a 6-12 month interval and their WC schedule is not impacted in either direction.

Over the years I started analyzing what was in the bottom of a grow out that had not met the filter yet and it wasn't fish waste but did look like another form of nasty that should be out of view. Fish scales, bits of what look a little like the shells of a snail that didn't live in the tank, etc.

But after all of that I'm still not certain that cleaning an FX6 once a year is actually better than cleaning once a week.

As an example I have six FX6's on an 800g along w/ a ton of pothos and I have one FX6 on a 110g grow out. WC's are weekly and the filters don't get serviced but for once every 6 months or more. Water parameters in the ways that I know to check them (which once established is basically an NO3 test once a week) seem xlnt.

Is there a significant benefit to weekly filter servicing?

What interval and filter service plan have you settled on and is there a reason for it?

 

[Americancichlidsaredabest]

I personally don’t see a ton of benefit from weekly filter cleaning because I’m always a little nervous about losing beneficial bacteria. I have an fx4 and an fx6 on my 150 gallon tank that I will clean if I see the output flow rate slowing down. I also do 85~95% water changes weekly

 

[FJB]

I can only give an opinion based on my own experience, and my own practices in relatively smallish tanks. I include in this my 3 6foot tanks, roughly 125g each. Each is filtered with a canister (2 of them with FX6 , the other with a Hydor 450), and with 2 AC 110. That is 3 filters in each tank.
Water changes are ~70% every week, and every filter (all types) are provided with window screen prefilters, and are turned off during ~20 minutes during feedings. The AC110s are cleaned weekly during water changes (Pre-filters cleaned and sponges squeezed). The canisters are cleaned 3-4 times a year, so every 3 to 4 months, but the prefilters are cleaned weekly. Water changes include vacuuming visible poop and milk from bottoms, all of which are sand. All tanks are fairly heavily planted.
My nitrate stays below 20 (often less), but there is detectable nitrate in the tap water (at least at 5), so I consider my levels about as good as I can get.
Finally, since all the fish are adult in these three tanks, I only feed 4 times a week, and the other days I simply hang nori sheet pieces from clips.
I would say that having prefilters on the filters, plus turning them off during feeding, and being planted tanks are key to my approach. If I didn’t do that, I would have to clean canisters more often. However, when I clean my canisters, I find relatively little particulate matter inside.
I am not sure if this contributes to your thread, but I do find it interesting. Thanks!

 

[Trouser Cough]

I am not sure if this contributes to your thread, but I do find it interesting. Thanks!

It most definitely does! Thank you!

I've read and enjoyed your comments on this board and every time I've noticed your log on name I've wondered if it was a reference to a US President and then I recall that political conversations are verboten and so have never asked. I have assumed it's probably not though.

I appreciate your response.

 

[Trouser Cough]

If it's true that tank maintenance is the least enjoyable aspect then eliminating unhelpful maintenance should be a priority.

The question is, where are the unhelpful or unnecessary aspects and what are we doing that may even be counterproductive?

 

[esoxlucius]

weren't removing waste from the water column but rather pulling waste out of my field of vision.

I feel that this comment ^ is key. Not having crud in your tank looks great, but the "other" invisible waste that said crud then produces as it breaks down in your filter, is indeed still in your tank!

The best way by far to reduce crud in your filter, and this applies to any design of filter, is to focus your maintenance on the mechanical side. I think more and more hobbyists have some form of makeshift pre filter on their filters now.

The idea to try and catch as much crud before it actually gets inside your filter is an extremely sensible one, and it really isn't that difficult to do. Once you've done that then the key thing is to swap out and/or simply thoroughly rinse your pre filter very regularly. I do mine three times per week, daily would be better.

Now as for the results, numbers wise, well that is a difficult one. To do it properly I'd need two 360 fibreglass tanks, both set up exactly the same. I'd simply have a regularly cleaned pre filter system on one, and bog standard let the crud build up in the filter on the other! Then just monitor and record test results. But this is an exercise I simply cannot do.

However, i don't believe you need actual numbers to prove you are improving your system by having regularly maintained pre filters on it. It's a simple no brainer to me. Taking that crud out regularly, which prevents it from further breaking down in your system, has absolutely 100% got to be improving your water quality, and at the end of the day, along with our water changes too, that is the goal we all strive for.

 

[Trouser Cough]

We've got a couple comments about pre filters and inquiring minds need to know. Are you two referring to something like a sock on a sump or are you using canisters? If canisters... what does a pre filter look like?

 

[esoxlucius]

We've got a couple comments about pre filters and inquiring minds need to know. Are you two referring to something like a sock on a sump or are you using canisters? If canisters... what does a pre filter look like?

All filters have a pre filter. Basically it's your mechanical side, so yes, a filter sock is indeed a pre filter. But some hobbyists take this concept to the next level, and have a makeshift pre filter on their pre filter if you like. This is crazy bat sh*t type stuff right? Not really, just a great improvement which is extremely effective.

This is very easy to do, especially with a custom made filter, such as a sump. Sump systems really are king for this type of jiggery pokery DIY filter improvement type thing.

I've never ran cannisters, not since my first time in the hobby decades ago anyway, but I imagine it to be a little more difficult with cannisters. You'd have to implement some jiggery pokery type skills on another level to what I have on my multiple layered trickle tower system. It doesn't surprise me one bit that cannisters are hated by a lot of hobbyists.

The key in all this, whichever way you want to approach it, is to drastically reduce the dwell time of waste in your tank which builds up in between water changes. Regularly swapping out pre filters, however many you chose to have, is a fantastic way of doing that.

 

[esoxlucius]

Just to give you an idea of how effective my pre filter is, I was doing a water change this morning and took a couple of pics.

The picture below is what I'd call my true mechanical filtration. A crate with a thick layer of filter floss in it. Nothing special right? Until I tell you that that filter floss very rarely gets replaced, maybe once every couple of months. Look how clean it is, it's basically still white!!



Why is this, how can this be? Well, there is another crate that sits on top of that one, see pic below. I consider the contents of this crate to be my pre filter. Sponges on top and more filter floss underneath.

Basically this is the filter which collects all the particulate, and because I rinse it all out very regularly none of that crud is in the system long enough to have too much of an adverse effect on my water quality.

The picture of that brand new looking filter floss above is testament to how well my pre filter is performing.



It's all about taking as much crud from the water column as possible, and then getting it out of the system completely. That's my goal.

Without splitting hairs too much you could say I have two mechanical sides to my overall filtration. One that I pay very special attention to, as in keep it clean, and the other, I don't need to worry about too much.

 

[Trouser Cough]

Interesting. FJB, are you using a pre filter on a sump as well?