Liquid Rubber vs West Systems

kwantz

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2007
165
1
48
Ontario
so basically saying, if i use the west systems i can get the tank done alot quicker? frig for the fiber glass matting they want like 12 dollars a yard... thats sorta pricey,,,, but it seems people are having a hard time getting the glass to set using liquid rubber... so it maybe worth the extra few dollars to get the epoxy and save time....

also is the fiberglass really needed throught the entire tank???
 

kwantz

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2007
165
1
48
Ontario
what are some pros and cons of each??? i need some help choosing here, both are readily available...

its about 190 bucks for the expoxy and the mixing pump they reccomend? is the pump necessary?
 

CJH

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 21, 2007
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*Confidential*
kwantz;4024169; said:
so basically saying, if i use the west systems i can get the tank done alot quicker? frig for the fiber glass matting they want like 12 dollars a yard... thats sorta pricey,,,, but it seems people are having a hard time getting the glass to set using liquid rubber... so it maybe worth the extra few dollars to get the epoxy and save time....

also is the fiberglass really needed throught the entire tank???
I don't think it will turn out to be a lot quicker to use epoxy instead of Liquid Rubber.

As far as fiberglass, a couple of us here on MFK have talked to chemists at West Systems and at a distributor of their product and they have recommended to not use fiberglass. They said if fiberglass was really needed for peace of mind to use it on the outside.

The Max ACR epoxy that Buckdog used came with the same recommendation. In fact if you read his thread you can see exactly what he did.

Why don't you call West Systems and see what the tech person you talk to recommends?

Likewise call Zavlar and get their input.

But back to fiberglass, I can still see it being a good idea to provide a bit of extra impact resistance on the inside of the tank but not necessarily for strength. The problem with fiberglass is people start putting it down right away and don't wet it out properly so it actually interferes with the waterproofing ability of the epoxy.

So instead it's better to go ahead and waterproof your tank without fiberglass. Then if you really need it add it to the final layers.

If I were to build another tank that's what I would do. Get 20 mils of epoxy laid down and then only glass the final layer.

As far as setting the glass, I would encourage you to not worry about this. There is no perfect sealant for plywood tanks. Dealing with adhering the glass in a Liquid Rubber sealed tank is just a minor hurdle in the long run.
 

CJH

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 21, 2007
531
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*Confidential*
kwantz;4024178; said:
what are some pros and cons of each??? i need some help choosing here, both are readily available...

its about 190 bucks for the expoxy and the mixing pump they reccomend? is the pump necessary?
I have mixed up a lot of epoxy without mixing pumps. But I'm very meticulous and have never head a cure issue. I believe for small batches the pumps are said to reduce waste and be more accurate.

I would think for a 700 gallon tank you could get away without it since you'd be doing large areas at a time. I would ask Garhog. Maybe he covers this in his thread. And again, ask West Systems.

Pros and Cons, boy that opens up a can of worms. I'll try to be brief and repeat that there is no perfect sealant. As has been discussed before, many people consider five basic tradeoffs when it comes to plywood tank sealants. In no particular order:

1) Cost, factoring in recommended dry mil thickness, percent solids, etc.

2) Long term durability.

3) Future repairability.

4) Glass installation.

5) Ease of application, which covers A LOT of sub-topics.
 

xdragonxb0i

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 23, 2009
926
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Arkansas
joey and a few others just used silicone, to apply it to the LR. there is another option. of using "Paintable silicone" Which is toxic . But the user manage the sealed the tank. His piranhas seem fine. they been in the tank for atleast 6 months.
 

Bazinga

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 18, 2010
844
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toronto
you have to let the silicone cure for a period of time before you coat it in liquid rubber, the vinegar smelling stuff is what eats away at the liquid rubber, let the silicone cure for a few weeks and then apply the liquid rubber and you should be fine.
 

Bazinga

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 18, 2010
844
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toronto
also where in Ontario are you? and where did you find the liquid rubber?
 

kwantz

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2007
165
1
48
Ontario
Im in sarnia ontario... Look to see if you have a Roofmart in your area, im sure you do. Go to their website and check out their locations.... still debating on what i should use. Seems like you have to wait for weeks for the silicone to cure before adding the liquid rubber...

I think I may go west systems as far as speed can go.... so hard to choose. Would I be able to do a whjole 700-800 gallon tank with one can of west systems?

I know if i were to use the liquid rubber id prolly need 3 gallons im assuming
 

BadOleRoss

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2009
1,323
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Virginia
Bazinga;4027654; said:
you have to let the silicone cure for a period of time before you coat it in liquid rubber, the vinegar smelling stuff is what eats away at the liquid rubber, let the silicone cure for a few weeks and then apply the liquid rubber and you should be fine.
Liquid Rubber will not stick to silicone. It will not even cure on silicone much less give you a seal. Silicone also does not stick well to liquid rubber! Silicone sticks a little to LR but it can be easily pulled off.
 

kwantz

Candiru
MFK Member
Nov 1, 2007
165
1
48
Ontario
so how are people getting there glass set in with liquid rubber, obviously people have done it. dont be shy, tell us how?
 
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