live feeder preperation, what do you do?
- Thread starter predatorkeeper87
- Start date
First and foremost I never feed live when I can get the species on market fish fillet or pellets.
I have NEVER medicated any of my feeders!
That seems extremely counter productive to me. I would GLADLY lose 3% - 7% of my feeders during a two week quarantine than invest in medicine to attempt to keep the weakest handful percent alive to feed my (sp. pisovours?). That just makes no sense when purchasing feeders in bulk.
I keep many cheepo 5$ 16 gallon Walmart tubs with two seeded sive V sponge filters in each.
- Each 16 gallon bin gets ~ 50 fathead minnows, or 20 golden shiner minnows.
- I do daily W/C's on every tub in excess of 50%.
- I gut stuff with NLS grow formula pellets. (I mix 25% Spirulina powder to 75% NLS grow for extremely small feeders [like guppies] or fry).
- Two weeks and EVERY feeder goes into predator tank(s).
- The bin is then 100% W/C & setup to begin the next two week QT.
I have never had a parasite infection since adopting this method of quarantine. I unfortunately unintentionally kill some of my predators feeding them what I believed to be a "tankmate".
I lost two Oscars that ate small green sunfish and died gruesomely from the fish spines trapping the sunnines in the O's intestines.
I could add dozens of similiar horror stories, but I think mt point has been made.
ZERO issue feeding live feeders, Major issues having fish QT'd and introduced to a tank that unintentionally become feeders! That is just my opinion though!
I have NEVER medicated any of my feeders!
That seems extremely counter productive to me. I would GLADLY lose 3% - 7% of my feeders during a two week quarantine than invest in medicine to attempt to keep the weakest handful percent alive to feed my (sp. pisovours?). That just makes no sense when purchasing feeders in bulk.
I keep many cheepo 5$ 16 gallon Walmart tubs with two seeded sive V sponge filters in each.
- Each 16 gallon bin gets ~ 50 fathead minnows, or 20 golden shiner minnows.
- I do daily W/C's on every tub in excess of 50%.
- I gut stuff with NLS grow formula pellets. (I mix 25% Spirulina powder to 75% NLS grow for extremely small feeders [like guppies] or fry).
- Two weeks and EVERY feeder goes into predator tank(s).
- The bin is then 100% W/C & setup to begin the next two week QT.
I have never had a parasite infection since adopting this method of quarantine. I unfortunately unintentionally kill some of my predators feeding them what I believed to be a "tankmate".
I lost two Oscars that ate small green sunfish and died gruesomely from the fish spines trapping the sunnines in the O's intestines.
I could add dozens of similiar horror stories, but I think mt point has been made.
ZERO issue feeding live feeders, Major issues having fish QT'd and introduced to a tank that unintentionally become feeders! That is just my opinion though!
WC feeders can also carry a wide range of pathogens from the wild, pathogens that fish in captivity have never been exposed to therefore they have no natural immunity against.
2 weeks in QT will certainly not cleanse a feeder of any/all external and/or internal pathogens. No matter what you feed, or how clean you keep the water. It's quite possible that you have a very good source of minnows, or you have been extremely lucky.
For me, it all comes down to this ........
Previously posted by Duane.
I think that it's important to note that the vast majority of pathogens can lay dormant in or on their host, or even in the substrate of ones tank, only surfacing when a captive fish comes under stress. That stress could be something as simple as a female being continuously harassed by a hyper dominant male, and suddenly that fish opens itself up to a pathogen that came in from a feeder months ago.
As long as one understands the risks, and can live with the potential results, then it's all good.
Previously posted by Duane.
I think that it's important to note that the vast majority of pathogens can lay dormant in or on their host, or even in the substrate of ones tank, only surfacing when a captive fish comes under stress. That stress could be something as simple as a female being continuously harassed by a hyper dominant male, and suddenly that fish opens itself up to a pathogen that came in from a feeder months ago.
As long as one understands the risks, and can live with the potential results, then it's all good.
I am totally missing the point of quarantine. IMO it is wait for the sickly to die, remove them, and keep the water pristine the entire "two week in my case" quarantine period. I assure you that some of my minnow sources may very well be "OK" but many are by far dirtier (bait store as I am an avid fisherman) than most in this hobby would get from LFS(s). It seems that I am indeed lucky.
Regardless, I will NEVER attempt to medicate feeders to "cure" a handful of pennies with dollars of medication. If I ever do have my first "issue" with live feeders infecting any of my predators, I will starve the remainder to death bar them switching to NLS pellet and NEVER attempt to keep the species again. Until than the 3 - 4 diseased minnows out ~ 50 per bin that are discarded are less than negligible IMO.
I am currently keeping three species that I cannot successfully get 100% off live so far. Much like T.S.
Grass Pickerels
Redfin Pickerels &
Chain Pickerels
I have tried both Thera +A floaters & sinkers, and have yet to get a single individual of any of the three species of pickerels to even take and spit a single pellet.
I had converted two batches of the Grass Pickerel to market Tilapia successfully, but that is the closest to a successful off live transition in any Esox that I have kept.
Esox is how this whole post came about in my head. my red fin won't take anything but live, and occasionally tilapia if I jig it in the water (have to starve him for a while, wont do it on a daily basis)
I guess ultimately it comes down to what you are either willing to do or willing to deal with when it comes to feeding your fish.
Quarantine definition: a strict isolation imposed to prevent the spread of disease
The point of QT is to monitor the fish in question for a duration long enough to satisfy the fishkeeper that the QT'd fish are all healthy. Certainly dead fish are not healthy, but being alive & appearing healthy does not equate to a feeder being pathogen free.
Make sense?
This is exactly why QT periods vary so much among fishkeepers. Some hobbyists will consider 30 days to be safe, some only a week, and many don't use any type of qt at all, for feeders or tropical fish picked up at the LFS. It's simply Russian Roulette for the latter! I know a SW fishkeeper with a massive marine display tank that QT's all new fish for 6 months. Crazy? Maybe, but with several years of work & thousands of dollars in livestock it seems like smart business to me.
I remember old school discus keepers QT'ing for 3-4 weeks, monitoring the fish, and if everything looked good they would then take a few of their current long term healthy livestock (culls, or inferior specimens) & introduce them to the QT fish, just to ensure that the QT'd fish weren't simply "carriers" of a pathogen, while exhibiting no symptoms on their end. If their regular stock remained healthy after a couple of weeks of being mixed, only then would they allow the QT'd fish to mix with the rest of their fishroom. Check out the QT regimen of the admin of simply discus.
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/general_info/quarantine_procedures.shtml
I guess that's what one has to consider doing when QTing designer fish that originate from Asia. While that has nothing to do with feeders it's a good example as to the extreme some folks go when QTing any type of fish that comes into their fishroom. Some commercial fish vendors in the USA will not allow you to enter their facilities unless you wear certain clothing, and shoe covers, due to the biosecrity measures they have in place. Some interesting reading for those that want to learn more about biosecurity in aquaculture. http://www.syndel.com/-Biosecurity-information-W21C11.aspx
The point of QT is to monitor the fish in question for a duration long enough to satisfy the fishkeeper that the QT'd fish are all healthy. Certainly dead fish are not healthy, but being alive & appearing healthy does not equate to a feeder being pathogen free.
Make sense?
This is exactly why QT periods vary so much among fishkeepers. Some hobbyists will consider 30 days to be safe, some only a week, and many don't use any type of qt at all, for feeders or tropical fish picked up at the LFS. It's simply Russian Roulette for the latter! I know a SW fishkeeper with a massive marine display tank that QT's all new fish for 6 months. Crazy? Maybe, but with several years of work & thousands of dollars in livestock it seems like smart business to me.
I remember old school discus keepers QT'ing for 3-4 weeks, monitoring the fish, and if everything looked good they would then take a few of their current long term healthy livestock (culls, or inferior specimens) & introduce them to the QT fish, just to ensure that the QT'd fish weren't simply "carriers" of a pathogen, while exhibiting no symptoms on their end. If their regular stock remained healthy after a couple of weeks of being mixed, only then would they allow the QT'd fish to mix with the rest of their fishroom. Check out the QT regimen of the admin of simply discus.
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/general_info/quarantine_procedures.shtml
I guess that's what one has to consider doing when QTing designer fish that originate from Asia. While that has nothing to do with feeders it's a good example as to the extreme some folks go when QTing any type of fish that comes into their fishroom. Some commercial fish vendors in the USA will not allow you to enter their facilities unless you wear certain clothing, and shoe covers, due to the biosecrity measures they have in place. Some interesting reading for those that want to learn more about biosecurity in aquaculture. http://www.syndel.com/-Biosecurity-information-W21C11.aspx
With regards to QT, and fish, this is another good read. From a biosecurity paper found on ornamentalfish.org
http://www.ornamentalfish.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Biosecurity.pdf
http://www.ornamentalfish.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Biosecurity.pdf
