LIVE FOOD FOR BICHIRS???

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What does live offer that pellets don't? How about exercise of the immune system? As long as you take care to minimize the number and strength of the pathogens, some pathogens are needed to keep the immune system active and even strengthen it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the whole idea behind vaccination?
 
Hey reptileguy, your article link is broken, it comes up "Oops. A piranha ate your page!"
 
"As long as you take care to minimize the number and strength of the pathogens"
...but you can't. You can't control which pathogens and how strong they are. Feeding live food is not like vaccinations. It is not like if fish get ich they won't get it again. It doesn't work like that. Feeding live will simply make them less healthy, nutritionally and pathologically. If there were any increase in immunity it would be outweighed by the decrease in nutrition.

As far as them being too fat, don't overfeed. Problem fixed.

Here is the excerpt from that article about diet:
Diet is another major issue. We simply cannot simulate the natural diet of most fish. These animals have 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to forage for food. Even if I was doing research in Amazonia on native fishes, had a bunch in some research facility, was working with a native tribe and they went out and gathered food for four hours every day, I still would not be replicating their natural diet. We have no idea that although from stomach content analysis from wild caught individuals we find they eat 30% this, and 40% that, etc. that they are not also occasionally coming across other foods at a much less frequent rate, possibly with vital micronutrients or some other vital part of their diet. In addition, in the wild the foods available change throughout the year and even year to year. During the beginning of the rainy season certain terrestrial animals become a large part of the diet of many if not most fish. The rain literally washes a number of animals and other food items into the waters for the fish to gorge on. In addition to this variability, different foods are available at different parts of the day. This will be more likely to be known from observation and stomach content analysis, but there is still going to be some unknown variability here. Even our ‘natural’ diets are far from it. These diets are usually described as live foods (feeder fish, many types of worms, assorted invertebrates, etc.), frozen foods (beef heart, squid, brine shrimp, etc.), freeze-dried, and even many processed foods are marketed as natural. Some brands toss in things like fresh seafood, kelp, and other similar ingredients. The most common argument is ‘this is the type of stuff they would eat in the wild’. Neon tetras, discus, etc. do not naturally eat kelp and salmon. No fish naturally feasts on beef heart. These food items are no more natural to these fish than the ingredients in the processed foods that so many avoid because they are supposedly so unnatural. Goldfish are not found in the natural waters of Oscars. It is totally unnatural for them to eat goldfish. These foods may be similar, but it is not as natural as many may think they are.
 
my polys aren't fat i just wanted to push your buttons :P they pretty much only eat pellets and silversides
 
reptileguy2727;5121075; said:
"...It is not like if fish get ich they won't get it again...
Since when are parasites a disease? Bad analogy, but I understand your point. My point is that if they have no pathogens, their immune systems will get weak. I agree COMPLETELY about goldfish(don't get me started, lol), in fact I rarely feed my oscar and bichirs live fish at all, only when my quarantine/hospital/growout tank's guppy population gets too big. But I do feed earthworms, nightcrawlers, and gut-loaded crickets.
My initial crop of guppies were quarantined and treated for parasites, which I recommend for anyone that feels they must use feeders(or as in my case, may use excess cycle keeping fish as feeder treats.) They are also fed a high quality food as opposed to the cheapest stuff that gets the job done for a commercial operation, sort of a gut load I guess. I also watch that tank for signs of disease as closely as the rest of my tanks.
Since I haven't had to treat any tank but the quarantine/hospital/growout tank for over 25 years, I think I have managed to control the pathogens pretty well. I think that over a quarter century of results pretty well knocks out any claims of luck.
A little bit of paranoia is good. A lot just makes your stomach hurt.

EDIT: I feed three kinds of pellets, too. HBH, Hikari and NLS.
 
feed mine all my leftover minnows from fishing all the time. been doin it for over 2 years with my arowana and a year with my bichirs.

no qt... i like to live on the edge.

usually crappie minnows and fatheads. arrow takes down my sucker minnows and shiners.

the bichirs take forever to eat them all if i leave the lights on.. but every morning the minnows are gone.. lol
 
Fishermoe14;5121736; said:
no qt... i like to live on the edge.
That will eventually catch up to you, luck only lasts so long. Long term there are only two kinds of keepers; Those that quarantine and those that haven't yet lost a favorite fish to disease/parasites. Most of my current fish have been with me at least 3 years, even if they weren't initially expensive it would hurt to lose them now, I'm rather attached.
 
The other issue is that when people say 'live foods' most don't think of what you do. They think of sick goldfish at the LFS. They don't quarantine and raise their own gut loaded inverts. I think IF you feed live what you are doing is the way to go.

Why are you still feeding HBH and Hikari? Have you tried NLS exclusively for months?
 
I feed a variety of pellets because I had company change formulas on me once and I had to scramble to find another food for some fish that had eaten that formula pretty much their entire lives would accept. With them used to a variety by eating all three, any one can be changed and it's still a good bet they'll eat it. Plus, HBH is MUCH easier to get knives started taking pellet, too. Once they start taking HBH SuperSoft krill, they'll usually take NLS too, and I usually don't have to roll HBH in garlic.
 
MonsterFishKeepers.com