Live vs Pellets?

[Deaths Sting]

well im off to bed..
night everyone..
thanks for the nice debate..
thanks lupin
thanks deathstar
cya tomorrow.


O O one more joke...
i went to big als the LFS last week and saw a florida gar and i asked the guy... where do they come from and he said.. well i think they come from africa.. !!!!
due to the fact it was housed with yellow labs dosent make it african!!
plus it has florida in its name lmao

deathstar wtf man!!!

 

[bluehairman]

deathstar wtf man!!!

Turns out his funniest joke was an accident.

 

[yogurt_21]

holy post marathon batman!

Thanks to Lupin for keeping it on track.


But home bred feeders do not have the issues of those found at lfs and you forget that all those vitamins and nutrients found in pellets can be fed to the feeders and end up in your predators bellies all the same.

other live foods have been overlooked as well as Lupin pointed out. live shrimp, crabs, worms, crickets etc. are also all beneficial and like above can be fed those vitamins and nutrients (and veggies) that you want your monsters to have.

Also puffers were brought up and someone mentioned a pellet food for them. I've yet to see a pellet that would be successful for puffers, feed your puffers pellets and you'll watch them starve to death once their teeth grow too long. they need the hard shells to constantly grind down on those ever growing teeth. snails and crustaceans for puffers.

As said before I feed live, frozen, and pellets to my oscars. this is necessary for a balanced diet and a balanced budget.

-frozen foods like the freshwater variety packs can be quite expensive although having all the necessary elements for healthy fish. Other things liek frozen shrimp can also be beneficial and good for natuaral coloring.

-home-bred feeders are relatively cheap but there are "seasons" where you'll have more and "seasons" where you'll have less. This for me is why feeders cannot be a primary. Also smaller fish are part of your monsters natural diet in the wild.

-good pellets are pricey as well and create unnecesary waste through the gills of my oscars. typically per pellet about 20-30% is lost through the gills adding to cost waste and bios waste at the bottom of the tank. while the pellets have a balanced diet they do not promote exercise at all which can lead to lithargic fish. if you have ample current in your tank via a circulation pump (like a hydor koralia) you can disregard.

-insects can provide many beneficial minerals and vitamins to your fish and are a natural part of their diet in the wild. the down side is some are noisy (crickets) others are hard to breed and typically your wife will not allow you to keep them in the house, which in AZ leads to an insect-b-que

-crustaceans like crabs, prawns, lobsters, etc can be pricey if you're land locked but offer many benefits for your fish. But as I'm in AZ, they're not really a viable option all the time.

 

[snyder810]

superleggera123 your thoughts and views are so one sided it is not even funny, and it's soley a pro hikari rant not even pro pellets. in a lot of ppl's opinion NLS is a superior pellet than hikari, although i understand nls doesn't make your massivore style. it's painfully obvious you feed only pellets and none of the insects, worms, shrimp that others suggest for varied diets. keep in mind i do use pellet's for my fish but you don't even open your eyes to answers you don't agree with.

when you mention you've seen many a fish die due to feeders what is your proof that it was the feeders? yes there is a risk of feeding live fish to your fish but many of those risks are completely overblown to outrageous proportions. i've come across many shop owners and hobbiests w/ 25+yrs of experience and rarely do i find one that will say never feed feeders. please back up some of your statements with actual information instead of videos of other ppl's fish and telling us what hikari has to say on the matter(and yes every good company in the world is willing to lie in order to sell, facts of life...go read other companies websites and see if you find similar information) because if you have personal experience it can be very helpful to other ppl because imo the best information comes from one's own personal experience. (sorry to pick only on you but you've posted a lot on this thread and seem to have strong opinions)

once again i've seen with my own fish and in the store i work fish grow faster on live/frozen diet rather than pellets. that's my own experience and the fish vary from catfish, p. bass, occars, aro's, knifefish, etc. a variety of species. this was on a varied diet though not just fish. live included crabs,crayfish,ghost shrimp, crickets, nightcrawlers, black worms, flies, and fish. frozen included blood worms, brine shrimp, krill, fillets, shrimp, and occasionally squid.

disagree with me if you will (but give me good information so that i and others can learn and not just your wrong), it's my own experience's and i use a lot of pellets in my own fishes diet including the above for more variation and well as mentioned for the simplicity it provides for me and for my family when i'm away.

 

[MonsterMinis]

So here's my Q.. as I've never really seen the WHY.. just the "NOoO!"

Why not feed mice?

I had reptiles for many years, snakes mostly, and some larger preditory lizards, tegu's, monitors, ect.. And Mice as a feeder where well simply the accepted food. again along w/ a varied diet depending on the reptile.

small mammals are inevitably a natural part of many predetory fishes diet? particularly amazonian and I'm gonna assume african fish? particularly river fish? Or am I wrong?

Why such a no no on mice and other rodents? or is it more a "moral" debate then actual nutrition debate? I thought this was a good place to ask this question.

 

[snyder810]

i've never used mice as food in a tank, but i know largemouth bass and channel cats will come up and eat them....along with snakes and ducklings

 

[bluehairman]

So here's my Q.. as I've never really seen the WHY.. just the "NOoO!"

Why not feed mice?

I had reptiles for many years, snakes mostly, and some larger preditory lizards, tegu's, monitors, ect.. And Mice as a feeder where well simply the accepted food. again along w/ a varied diet depending on the reptile.

small mammals are inevitably a natural part of many predetory fishes diet? particularly amazonian and I'm gonna assume african fish? particularly river fish? Or am I wrong?

Why such a no no on mice and other rodents? or is it more a "moral" debate then actual nutrition debate? I thought this was a good place to ask this question.

Like Lupin stated, some fish cannot digest mammal proteins. Your obvious scavenger like a piranha for example can, but others may not be able to.
This is the same reason for the debate over beef heart. I continue to use beef heart anyways, just very rarely.

 

[superleggera123]

haha deathsting
sorry bro
i was watchin a show and it had deathstar in it so it was stuck in my mind

guys i think the best diet hands down it live insects..frozen food and massivore
NO ARGUMENT
deathsting do u agree?

 

[bluehairman]

I would agree but not strictly massivore pellets... You should change it to a variety of pellets instead of your one all hailed massivore..

 

[superleggera123]

superleggera123 your thoughts and views are so one sided it is not even funny, and it's soley a pro hikari rant not even pro pellets. in a lot of ppl's opinion NLS is a superior pellet than hikari, although i understand nls doesn't make your massivore style. it's painfully obvious you feed only pellets and none of the insects, worms, shrimp that others suggest for varied diets. keep in mind i do use pellet's for my fish but you don't even open your eyes to answers you don't agree with.

when you mention you've seen many a fish die due to feeders what is your proof that it was the feeders? yes there is a risk of feeding live fish to your fish but many of those risks are completely overblown to outrageous proportions. i've come across many shop owners and hobbiests w/ 25+yrs of experience and rarely do i find one that will say never feed feeders. please back up some of your statements with actual information instead of videos of other ppl's fish and telling us what hikari has to say on the matter(and yes every good company in the world is willing to lie in order to sell, facts of life...go read other companies websites and see if you find similar information) because if you have personal experience it can be very helpful to other ppl because imo the best information comes from one's own personal experience. (sorry to pick only on you but you've posted a lot on this thread and seem to have strong opinions)

once again i've seen with my own fish and in the store i work fish grow faster on live/frozen diet rather than pellets. that's my own experience and the fish vary from catfish, p. bass, occars, aro's, knifefish, etc. a variety of species. this was on a varied diet though not just fish. live included crabs,crayfish,ghost shrimp, crickets, nightcrawlers, black worms, flies, and fish. frozen included blood worms, brine shrimp, krill, fillets, shrimp, and occasionally squid.

disagree with me if you will (but give me good information so that i and others can learn and not just your wrong), it's my own experience's and i use a lot of pellets in my own fishes diet including the above for more variation and well as mentioned for the simplicity it provides for me and for my family when i'm away.

ummm ive lost many jags after they ate feeders..
they got parasites... it was very upsetting and thats when i decided goldfish feeders suck and are horrible to ur fish