OK, so I should let it eat as it wants for a while, if im understanding, and I should get it onto pellet with the occasional live feed? Is that what Im reading. What kind of pellets? I understand floating but what specifically am I looking for? Also how is the switch done? Is this an easy process, I guess it is hard to believe that a predator like a LNG would eat something that doesnt move, Im sure Im wrong it just doesnt seem natural. I really appreciate the help from everyone.
Longnose Gar
- Thread starter RoughFishAssassins
- Start date
That's under optimal conditions; most people end up either over-/under-feeding them along with keeping them under sub-optimal conditions and end up stunting them. I need to remember to get the qualifier of "under optimal conditions" added to that part...
At this point in time, it's not going to do it much good giving it as much as it wants; keep it to a less frequent feeding schedule in order to get better long-term growth. Think about how gars live in the wild: They hatch in the late spring/early summer (depending on location and climate), and they grow substantially during their first few months of life e.g. their first growing season in the summer. Towards the end of the summer/early fall, they start to add on body mass rather than just overall body size in order to prepare for the coming change of seasons and to allow them to make it through the winter because gars stop feeding when water temperature drop to 50°F. Once spring comes around and the water warms up, they'll resume feeding and begin growing again. You don't need to substantially drop the gar's water temperature during the winter, but a slight decrease in temperature as well as as decrease in the food available could prove beneficial.
As for pellets, I've used a variety of floating pellets with success, but Hikari Floating Food Sticks have worked the best for me. You'll want to switch the gar to either prepared foods (pieces of fish, shrimp, etc.) and/or whole and/or freeze-dried krill before trying to get it to take pellets. Some longnose gars can be picky about taking pellets, so it's much easier to work your way up to pellets rather than trying to get it to quit live food cold turkey (although it might work in some cases); usually they'll switch pretty easily if given F/D krill then pellets. Remember that it will eventually take pellets; anyone who states that gars don't eat pellets really needs to see Richard's video on that topic.
Man O man even though you are a Gar expert, and I am a newbie fish keeper, that seems bordering on F'ing retarded to me. I keep my Gar in a outdoor pond and it eats like a pig spring, summer, winter and fall! The only thing I worry about insofar as any of my dozen gars "over-eating" is that they will attempt to swallow prey too large to eat and die trying! AGAIN IMO (as a newbie, not a gar expert) directly pellet feeding gar is GROSSLY overvalued. IMO Gar should NOT eat pellet directly. The fish in nature NEVER eat pellets, and guess what, it survived 200,000,000 years (alot longer than we humans will!).
I do understand that fishkeeping is not necessarily directly dependant upon the life in the wild, but keep in mind, that the fish survived 200,000,000+ years not requiring further evolution hunting and eating live fish. IMO even if you want to augment your gars diet with the added nutrition present in pelletized food, it should always be done by gut stuffing the feeders with the high quality pellet and have the gar hunt its food like it does in nature. I have a strong preferance for feeding my gar market seafood when going with non-live.
Furthermore, I do not believe that you are taking into consideration the destination of the gar. If the OP is raising the gar from this small size in order to get it to a larger size that it may survive being outdoor pond stocked with pond fish in the establised pond. That is what I am doing. It is NOT going to be an option for my gar to "not know how to hunt". IMO I might as well butcher knife the thing rather than throw a gar in a pond over 100' diameter stocked with panfish that it is unable to catch and eat. I think it stupid, and would rather potentially "stunt" my gar than potentially "retard" my gar. Even a stunted LNG may outlive me in that pond. A retarded gar will not!
And so you think innate, likely genetically innate, behavior can deprogrammed in a 200 million+ year old fish ? OK now that is close to the most F-ing retarded thing I've read for a bit.
No patience to go further as I see little point at this junction......
Going back under my Rock.....
I like turtles
And so you think innate, likely genetically innate, behavior can deprogrammed in a 200 million+ year old fish ? OK now that is close to the most F-ing retarded thing I've read for a bit.
No patience to go further as I see little point at this junction......
Going back under my Rock.....
I like turtles
Yep, you can feed a lion heads of lettuce super charged with nutrients to keep the thing alive, but you have "deprogrammed" the "thing". It is no longer a lion, but a piece of poop circus cat that could not possibly survive if released back into the wild. Gezus dude, why the F' is it that it is SO rare that you can return a wild animal to its natural environment after human intervention into their life cycle. WE DEPROGRAM THEM for petes sake!!!
Fish MAY be slightly less impacted by this than mammals by our intervention, but not unaffected. Hell we have taken the ability to survive in the wild from ENTIRE SPECIES. Believe it or not, at one point in time "DOMESTICATED" big word dogs were TOTALLY self sufficient and existed on this planet in the wild WITHOUT mans "help". No we don't "de-program" animals! Please.
After two years in the hobby I will NEVER consider myself an "expert", however from a lifetime of experience as a fisherman, some of the "expert fish keepers" thought processes on WILD fish is SO skewed that it is slightly frustrating from time to time srossing over between the two distinct ever so slightly related "hobbies". I know I have much to learn about fish keeping, but you could use some additional ed. on wild fish.
The ABSOLUTE extreme norm in the PROHIBATIVE vast majority of egg layer fish is that they are unable to develop adequate hunting skills to survive in the wild. These juvinile fish will perish in the wild. Fact! That is the reason that they have like a hundred times the number of spawn that are required to continure the population. No question the extreme vast majority fail to develop hunting skills and require ten gars to hatch to get one to "possibly" reach maturity in the wild. Not only do you take the gars ability to survive in the wild away by NOT allowing it to develop the necessary hunting skills as a juvinile, you make it IMO a guppy with a long nose and pointy teeth.
I must be the "unluckiest" guy on the planet. I must have personally seen a dozen or more DIFFERENT baby birds that NEVER learned to "INATELY" fly and splattered. Heck, birds don't even have 100 chicks even though "flight" their "Nature" is not "inate".
OK... Let me stop you real quick before you embarrass yourself..
Just drop this line of ranting about things your NOT in any position to talk about.. Especially when you start saying things like "but you could use some additional ed. on wild fish." My work is primarily in the field of Wild fish, Aquaculture and in Ethology (Animal behavior) of these fields. I'm not a Fish tank hobbyist. I am an individual that is deeply involved with Gar on various levels which is the reason I bother to stick around here.
At this point I very well could systematically dispel and take apart everything you have just said in these two weird personal opinion posts of yours. I have the education and professional background to do so. However, I'd prefer a different route and that would be to let your posts stand as they are and just move on to whatever this post was supposed to be about.
OF COURSE somebody HAD TO say "you're stunting them" - It's a given... they are just jealous 
And yes, they are Longnose Gar (and now, an alligator gar, freshly added!) He's only about 7 inches - up to you to decide if he's stunted or a baby. I'll let you make another assumption
A good rule of thumb is to feed them well, every couple of days - Remember in the wild, they are not chowing down 20 goldfish everyday.
As for choking - I've never seen this - Sometimes a gar will try to grab an extra-large feeder fish, and after many attempts, will give up (rather than choke on it.)
Nothing wrong with pellets - if pellets were not designed with proper nutrition, they would not be used / sold on such a commercial scale. I feed pellets, with a treat of live feeders every couple of months, for good measure.
And yes, they are Longnose Gar (and now, an alligator gar, freshly added!) He's only about 7 inches - up to you to decide if he's stunted or a baby. I'll let you make another assumption
A good rule of thumb is to feed them well, every couple of days - Remember in the wild, they are not chowing down 20 goldfish everyday.
As for choking - I've never seen this - Sometimes a gar will try to grab an extra-large feeder fish, and after many attempts, will give up (rather than choke on it.)
Nothing wrong with pellets - if pellets were not designed with proper nutrition, they would not be used / sold on such a commercial scale. I feed pellets, with a treat of live feeders every couple of months, for good measure.
If you knew me you would know that I'm Feral... But you do not so I'll leave it at that...
Good Day
Thats Sig worthy Pej...... Listen to Pej... and he is feral lol... and knows what he's talking about.
What I have done - what has worked for me with my floridas and now my cuban... Is offer the tank 60 feeders every other monday... the tank doesn't get fed until 48 after the last feeder has vanished.. then they get NLS pellets every other day until the next round of feeders goes in. I tailor the amount of pellets/feeders to this schedule... If the gar do not come up for the pellets at each feeding... they do not get that feeding ( ie if they show no interest in the jar of food when I grab it, they know the routine and learned very quick which one is theirs) I do feed the goldfish/rosies a High quality basic flake ( healthy feeders = better nutrition. the gar digest not just the flesh and bones but the content of the feeders stomach/intestines as well.)
btw my Gars also love nightcrawlers which are pretty balanced on vit/mins/protein/fat content levels. ( imo no one food is best, but a variety of good foods is.)
PS- 60 feeders last my 3 gar about 48 hours... 2 yoy, 1 no clue was over 14" when we got him.
What I have done - what has worked for me with my floridas and now my cuban... Is offer the tank 60 feeders every other monday... the tank doesn't get fed until 48 after the last feeder has vanished.. then they get NLS pellets every other day until the next round of feeders goes in. I tailor the amount of pellets/feeders to this schedule... If the gar do not come up for the pellets at each feeding... they do not get that feeding ( ie if they show no interest in the jar of food when I grab it, they know the routine and learned very quick which one is theirs) I do feed the goldfish/rosies a High quality basic flake ( healthy feeders = better nutrition. the gar digest not just the flesh and bones but the content of the feeders stomach/intestines as well.)
btw my Gars also love nightcrawlers which are pretty balanced on vit/mins/protein/fat content levels. ( imo no one food is best, but a variety of good foods is.)
PS- 60 feeders last my 3 gar about 48 hours... 2 yoy, 1 no clue was over 14" when we got him.
