fair enough mate.... to be fair, i could get the tems from wholesale tropical too... lol abiout the last comment... and i dont mean to challange what you say, just dont wana miss out on some kelberi, if they asre id rather drive the extra.... but im swaying now hjust get wildwoods to drop they price.... maybe they want a wal, and x6 channa ornates for 4 pbass and a tat... at there retail they will easy make them more money than the cichla....