Massivore as a staple?

RD.

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...... and Massivore would be fine as a staple, but just like that NLS formula they are high protein/high fat foods that should be fed somewhat sparingly, no matter the species, and really only designed for large fish eating fish. (carnivores/piscivores)
 

that_fish_Guy

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To all the people saying that massivore causes infertility issues. I just bred my convicts the fry just became free swimming today. And all I have been feeding the parents for an entire month is massivore. So I'm not sure how much of that claim is true.


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krichardson

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I think 00kevin was joking.
 

Dieselhybrid

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To all the people saying that massivore causes infertility issues. I just bred my convicts the fry just became free swimming today. And all I have been feeding the parents for an entire month is massivore. So I'm not sure how much of that claim is true.


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I think convicts would breed if you fed them Styrofoam in a street puddle.
 

00kevin

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As funny as it sounds, I'm being very serious. I will now only use massivore to raise juvies, and then switch to a natural pellet when it's time for reproduction. The Texas produced thousands of Red Texas hybrids, then once he started taking massivore I got nothing but white moldy eggs for almost a year. I figured he had run out of his manhood with age so I wrote it off, but continued to keep the pair together as a thanks for the fry. Then I went to krill, purely for price reasons, and he became fertile again.
 

Dieselhybrid

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I've heard rumors that massivore contains msg. Maybe that could cause fertility issues? Would explain why it's like crack to fish
 

RD.

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bet you'de get a higher rate of surviving eggs on a natural diet
Natural diet? Is this the food that you are referring to?

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-food-feeders/kens-premium-krill-pellet-40-mm.html

If so, the ingredients are no more natural than Massivore, and while I don't debate the results that you had with Massivore, a result such as that with a single pair of fish becomes purely anecdotal evidence in the grand scheme of things.

But here's the thing, the krill pellets from Ken appear to be designed more for a high energy cold water fish such as salmon/trout, not warm water tropical fish that live in a small glass cage.

Guaranteed analysis: protein 45%; fat 24%; fiber 3%

24% crude fat is WAY TOO MUCH fat for any tropical fish. It may have triggered your fish to spawn, but over time it will cause health issues in your fish if fed as the staple, especially for anyone who tends to overfeed their fish.

Fat is primarily utilized by fish as an energy source, so the amount required for optimum health will vary within species, as well as the life stage of the fish. The higher the metabolic rate of the fish, the more fat that will be required by the fish. Generally speaking, the vast majority of tropical species will function best on a diet that contains less than 10% crude fat.


An Evaluation of Two Commercially Prepared Feeds on Growth Performance and Liver Condition of Juvenile African Cichlids Pseudotropheus socolofi and Haplochromis ahli

North American Journal of Aquaculture
Volume 66, Issue 4, 2004



http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/A03-035.1


ABSTRACT A 12-week feeding trial was conducted to evaluate growth performance and hepatocyte changes in juvenile African cichlids Pseudotropheus socolofi and Haplochromis ahli fed commercial diets commonly used on cichlid farms in south Florida. Fish were fed either a trout starter pellet diet (TP diet; 52% crude protein, 17% lipid) or a mixed flake feed diet (fish flake [FF] diet) (47% crude protein, 7% lipid). For both species, growth was significantly greater (P < 0.05) in fish fed the TP diet than in fish fed the FF diet, H. ahli administered the FF diet exhibiting the slowest growth. The hepatosomatic index was not significantly different among treatments (P > 0.1). Histological examination revealed severe vacuolation of hepatocytes in P. socolofi fed the TP diet and moderate vacuolation in H. ahli fed the TP diet. Moderate vacuolation of hepatocytes was observed in P. socolofi fed the FF diet, and only mild vacuolation was found in H. ahli fed the FF diet. The lipid-rich TP diet may be suitable for commercial production of juvenile African cichlids up to 12 weeks of age, but prolonged feeding may result in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver. Feeds like the FF diet, which produced slower growth but lower lipid deposition in livers, may be more suitable as a maintenance diet for cichlids in the home aquarium.


The problem with fatty deposition of the liver is you can't see it with the naked eye, it can build up very quickly, and if not corrected can shave years off of the life of an otherwise healthy specimen.



Also from this study ....

Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated "the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish"

With prolonged feeding of a high-energy, lipid rich diet, degenerative changes of the liver and death can occur unless the diet is corrected.

The lipid-rich TP diet may be suitable for commercial production of juvenile African cichlids up to 12 weeks of age, but prolonged feeding may result in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver. Feeds like the FF diet, which produced slower growth but lower lipid deposition in livers, may be more suitable as a maintenance diet for cichlids in the home aquarium.

This had nothing to do with massive overfeeding, or fish that appeared obese. Without performing a necropsy, and examining the histological changes in the liver under a microscope, the average hobbyist wouldn't have clue one as to the potential long term damage they were doing to their fish.

The fish used in this study were only 4 weeks old when the feed trial began, and averaged 0.06 g in weight, and 1.5 cm in total length.



Now imagine what happens to the liver of an adult CA/SA cichlid (with much lower metabolisms) when fed diets that contain excessive amounts of lipids. (fat)

The juvie H. ahli (actually an S. fryeri) used in this study fared much better being a carnivore, but it still showed a lipid accumulation in the hepatocytes. (<50%) The P. socolofi had extensive lipid accumulation when fed the TP diet.

This study came about after some cichlid farms in south FL suffered from some large mortalities in both 1998 & 1999. When the dead fish were examined they showed fatty infiltration of the liver, heavy vacuolation, and severe necrosis of the liver, pancreas, and spleen.

It was suggested to the farms that they replace ther feeds with one that had a lower lipid content (less than 10%) and supplement the feed with a vitamin premix. Clinical signs in the affected farms were resolved after implementation of these recommendations.
 
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