Max-Flo 2400 sump return plumbing

[muscle]

This weekend I plan to setup my new 110 gallon stock tank sump. I have everything to drill and plumb the overflows.

I still need to figure out the best way to plumb the return lines. What are some best practices when plumbing the return lines from a Max-Flo 2400? I have to come up 22" and out of the stock tank, over 2' laterally, make a left turn behind the tank. At that point the main return line will be at the top of the back of the stand. The current tank is a 120 gallon. I was thinking two of three returns in the tank. What is the best way to accomplish this?

 

[aldiaz33]

Using flexible tubing will give you the least friction loss since you can make gradual bends, but not sure that that matters since the flow you are going to have in a 120G is going to be pretty intense either way. The 2400 does around 1,800GPH @ 5' head. That's 15x through your sump. Are you keeping fish that like that much current?

 

[muscle]

Using flexible tubing will give you the least friction loss since you can make gradual bends, but not sure that that matters since the flow you are going to have in a 120G is going to be pretty intense either way. The 2400 does around 1,800GPH @ 5' head. That's 15x through your sump. Are you keeping fish that like that much current?

The tank is full of midas and is only a temporary tank. I figured that I could restrict the output for now. I also currently have the stock tank cycling with the pump on without any plumbing. There is 6L of pond matrix sitting on top of the pump. This has restricted the output somewhat. However, I want to use this tank as a test for the most efficient plumbing. I am also going to eventually move the stock tank sump outside of my lanai (my tanks are outside on my lanai), so the plumbing will be extended.

A couple questions...

Should I use a three-way manifold to split the outputs?

Should I install return line bulk heads on the back of the tank or make something to go over the top like a canister filter does?

Thank you for the help!

 

[aldiaz33]

The most important thing you can do to maximize a pumps output is to use large plumbing. The size of the discharge on the pump shouldn't necessarily determine what size plumbing you use.

It sounds like you are using a pretty big sump relative to the size of you display tank, so bulkheads on the back would work well as long as you have them towards the top of the tank. The concern would be to make sure the sump has enough capacity to hold all the water that will drain through the bulkheads (returns).

Below is an excerpt from Reeflo's "Tips and Troubleshooting" writeup that you might find helpful- full PDF here: http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/tips.pdf


There are two elements that cause pressure requirements in your system; vertical lift and
“FRICTION LOSS”. Simply stated it is the pressure created by trying to squeeze large flows
through a narrow opening (think bar straw). There are two important aspects 1) It matters the
length of the narrow line (1” bar straw vs. 10” bar straw) and 2) Friction loss increases at an
increasing rate when either flow is increased or pipe is narrowed. The narrower the line the more
the pump has to work (think clogged ateries and your heart).
Minimize friction losses by using large diameter pipe. First determine the approximate flow rate
you want, and the total length of your pipe. The Friction Loss chart will allow you determine the
amount of extra “head pressure” will be added to your systemdue to the diameter of your piping.
(The size of the pump’s suction and discharge ports does not indicate your proper pipe size.)
Choose a pipe diameter that keeps your friction loss below about five feet per hundred feet of
pipe. Even if you have a section of small diameter pipe that you can’t change, as with a through
the wall fitting, it is still beneficial to use larger pipe on the majority of the run. It matter how much
wide pipe you use.

 

[muscle]

Awesome, thank you.

Do you use check valves on your return lines?

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[aldiaz33]

No problem. I would try to use 1.5" tubing/pipe for the pump to get the most flow out of it. In regards to splitting flow to two returns, Laguna sells some Y fittings that might work, but I have heard mixed reviews on them (some people report that they leak). As long as you are using large (1.5") tubing/pipe, a T will work well too.

I don't use check valves. They can be nice insurance, but not something you want to rely on to prevent flooding your sump because they can and do fail. They just restrict flow too much for me to want to use them (there are some that restrict flow less than others, but they all add friction). I think the best idea is to make sure your sump can always accommodate the volume in the event of a back siphon (pumps off) by keeping your returns near the water's surface. If you do this, check valves will be totally unnecessary.

Hope that helps.

 

[muscle]

This helps a lot. I have a solid plan to work with now.

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[muscle]

I got everything setup this weekend. I used 1.5" for everything. I have two 1.5" drains. Each drilled about 12" from each end. They are both running full siphon and being controlled by a ball valve.

Now I'm trying to get the flow adjusted to keep all the waste suspended. For tonight, I have a 1.5" elbow at each end of the tank. What is the most efficient way to split the return line without losing flow? Since I have 1.5" plumbing, would two 3/4" be best?

In addition to the return lines, I'm still using two power heads. I'm doing this mainly as backup flow if the main pumps goes out. However, I don't want to vacuum the sand, so I want to keep the waste suspended. So far I've been unsuccessful.

 

[aldiaz33]

Do you have emergency drains in case one of your full siphon drains becomes partially/fully blocked?

If you are running full siphon you need emergency drains, otherwise you could end up with a lot of water on your floors. Even if your drains never become "blocked," as time goes by gunk builds up in the pipe and slows down flow. This alone could cause your drains to be restricted and your display tank may overflow...especially a concern since you have such a big sump relative to the size of your display tank.

I would recommend doing a google search for Herbie Overflow or Beananimal Overflow.

 

[muscle]

I switched from two full siphon drains to one full siphon and one skimmer drain. The full siphon is restricted by a ball valve and the skimmer drain is wide open. I am hoping this is a safer setup. This is just a test tank. Once I get my permanent tank, I will do the Herbie.

After looking at my return plumbing, I decided that I was restricting a lot of flow with all the angles. Plus after doing a lot of experimenting, I realized that to accomplish my goal of keeping the waste suspended, it would be better to have all the return plumbing on one side of the tank. I even found that having the powerhead on the same side as the returns worked better than having it on the opposite side. With this new plumbing configuration the full siphon drain, which is next to the return lines, sucks up most of the waste.

Below are some pictures of my setup. Please tell me if you see something that should be changed.

About 6 gallons of pond matrix in the sump. Sump has a 1/2" overflow drain for drip system. I will be adding another as a backup.


I have a ton of pothos. I'm going to let this bunch get established before I add more. Plus it's that time of year where it goes dormant. Once established it should do really well as it will get lots of sunlight.


1.5" flex return line. Two 3/4" returns in the tank.


Clean Sand. I found that keeping the pump return close to the top works best. Lots of flow, but sand isn't blowing around.


There are nine small midas in this tank (1 female and 8 males). They seem to be handling the flow just fine. I will probably put the powerhead on a timer so it shuts off at night.


The sump will eventually get moved outside of my lania