Med mixing

[fishfreak7]

Hello all, I am new here and want to know if I can use kanamycin and oxilinix acid together? If not, which is better to use if my fish has bacterial infection, dropsy, and open wound?

 

[Lupin]

Water changes are your best defense right now and epsom salt dip for dropsy. Is the fish in a separate tank?

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

Hello all, I am new here and want to know if I can use kanamycin and oxilinix acid together? If not, which is better to use if my fish has bacterial infection, dropsy, and open wound?

i have never used the acid. What are you using the acid to treat?

The antibiotic is a good one for open wounds and bacterial infections. And salts and water changes do fairly good with dropsy.

What fish are you treating? And is the fish eating?

 

[fishfreak7]

Hello all, my name's Raina. I have a large 7 year old goldfish named Cletis who is very sick. Ok, so this 4th of July I went camping with my family and came home on the 5th. When I got home I immediately checked all my tanks and all my fish, never know what can happen when you're gone ya know. Lo and behold I noticed my goldfish's scales looked bumpy. Upon further examination he definitely had dropsy, although he didn't look very pinecone looking yet. He was sitting on his belly on the rocks. I immediately changed the water by 50% (40 gallon tank with backfilter and airstone) added some stress coat, started a course of Lifeguard, and to my chagrin added salt! I know I know now that that was a horrible thing to do but I didn't know that at the time and I could shoot myself for it now, but it happened and all I can do is try to fix him. I tested water daily everything was fine, continued to dose with LIfeguard. He got worse and then started too lie on his side. Because he has a tankmate, another goldfish, I decided to transfer him to a 10 gallon because his tankmate was and is fine and never showed any sign of disease or change in behavior. So I set up a 10 gal, added stress coat, added heater and raised temp from his 76 to 85, added a ammonia absorb pad, 1/2 teasp epsom salt and airstone. I tried to feed him a pea and he wouldn't take it, his water got messy so I changed it so it would be free of food. I then started him on erythromycin 200 mg - 10 gal. I have given him 1 dose so far. Last night i noticed his head had a spot on the top where it looks white and fleshy (he normally has a large orange wen) it almost looks like its an indentation in his hood. I also noticed today that he is losing a lot of slime coat, I can see it floating in his tank. Some of his scales seem to be turning black or grey in color, believe its ammonia burn although water tested fine.​

Ammonia: .25-1.0 AP liquid test 2 bottles
Nitrite: 0-.25
Nitrate: 10
pH: 8.0
KH: don't know
Temperature: 85 F
Heater: Yes
Aeration: Yes, large airstone and backfilter with sponge from home tank
Water change amount/frequency: 25-50% every day
Tank size/how long in operation: 10 gallon, 6 days
Water additives/conditioners/pH adjusters: epsom salt, stress coat, ammonia remover pad
fish fed: every 2 days, fish isn't eating
Unusual findings on the fish: dropsy, excess slime coat coming off
Unusual behavior: lying on side on bottom and not eating
Medications/what has been tried or done do far: used Lifeguard and am now using erythromycin last day​

I have added the conditions of my goldfish's home tank as you guys requested. I still have him in the ten gallon tank and he is still alive. Yesterday I kinda freaked out because his wen seems to have popped or exploded? Are they filled with fluid or gases? this seems like a stupid question to me, but I ask because when I checked on him after I slept for a couple hours it was opened up. It had previously had a indentation as I mentioned in my earlier post. Now where the indentation was it is now a hole, as if it is a popped balloon, the left side is mostly affected as it seems the right is still firm but I can see what seems to be the top of his head when I peer through the opening. As for his dropsy, he still has it, I'm not positive but it seems to not be as pineconey as it was before. He is breathing just a little fast and he has been trying to, it seems, maybe right himself up. He still is lying on his side and not eating. The black discoloration appears to, yes, be ammonia burn. Although I don't know when it happened as all my testing turned out fine. Must have been a while ago if its already turning black to heal. Am still giving erythromycin, this will be the last dose today. So, should I start him on a different antibiotic, maybe one more for gram negative bacteria? I love him and really want him to survive. Thanks all.




Ammonia: 0

Ammonia tester used (salicylate or Nessler-reagent based?): AP liquid test 2 bottles​

Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Are you testing with dipsticks?: no
pH: 7.6
KH: don't know
Temperature: 76 F
Heater: no
Aeration: Yes, airstone
Water change amount/frequency: 50% every 2 weeks
Tank size/how long in operation: 40 gallon, 5 years
Filtration: yes backfilter
Water additives/conditioners/pH adjusters: salt, stress coat
What, how much and how often are the fish/frogs fed: every 2 days
Tank inhabitants (number, size and type of fish/frogs): 2 goldfish, now one
New additions/changes to the tank: none
Unusual findings on the fish/frog: dropsy on one goldfish, other goldfish appears healthy
Unusual behavior: lying on side on bottom and not eating
Medications/what has been tried or done do far: used Lifeguard 5 days, melefix 5 days​

Here are some pictures, I tried to take as best I could. He has no visible fungus he has red areas on wen and clearish areas too. Under his wen thats coming off i see his head which it looks white or gray in color and I see maybe one red spot. I'd describe it as if hes wearing a fluttering bandanna. His ammonia started to rise from 0 to .25 and was starting to convert to nitrites so I had to change the water after already adding the last dose of erythromycin. There was still trace ammonia and it was gonna continue to rise with his wen tissue coming off, I couldn't do another water change so I had to add ammo-lock so it wouldn't harm him. I have done water changes every day and no meds were ever mixed together. I saw a site http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/dropsy.html - http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm#dropsy that tells of very good results for goldfish recovering from dropsy. I'm not sure about 2nd infections though. I have ordered kana-pro
(kanamycin) and the oxolinic acid powder as suggested on the link I've included, they're coming overnight. He is only on epsom salt and Erythromycin right now and not sure how much left after I changed the water. Yesterday was the 4th and last dose of erythromycin. I have a small back filter on the tank and an airstone, I'm positive there is much oxygen. Right now his current temp is 84F-85F read by mercury not a temp strip. He is not breathing hard and he continues to try to swim when I come near, he knows I'm doing something to try and help him. He doesn't seem like hes really gonna die too soon by the way he acts when i come near, hes still got pep! So, I want to treat his dropsy and his secondary bacterial? infection, how do I do this? 1) I need to keep my water parameters correct. 2) Keep using the epsom salt. Use oxolinic acid powder for dropsy. 3) Use kanamycin for bacteria (wen problem and splitting fins, internal). I can only use oxolinic acid for no more than 3 days before i do 100% water change. Can I use kanamycin with it? If no, should I treat with kana first and then oxolinic or other way around?
There is a med food called Medi-Koi Koi food that has Romet, Kanamycin, and oxilinic acid in it. Does that mean I can possibly mix?

I used erythromycin for 4 days and last dose was yesterday. He has no meds in the tank. I ordered Kanamycin (kana-pro) and oxilinic acid powder today from NFP online and it is being overnighted so I'll have asap it in the morning. I just need to know which one to use first, or if I can use them together.

I found a product called Medi-Koi Koi food and it is an antibiotic food which contains Romet, Kanamycin, and oxilinic acid. Does this mean maybe I can mix. Oxilinic acid sounds like it has good results on goldfish with dropsy. http://www.tsekoi.com/medications/medi.html

 

[Lupin]

to MFK by the way, Raina!

It's a well detailed post and certainly helps a lot.

First of all, if you were certainly adding sodium chloride, this could worsen the dropsy case as the kidneys fail to function and cope with the added electrolytes. Dropsy involves organ failure and adding sodium chloride is not advisable.

The Lifeguard treatment seems pretty strong to me. Recorded active ingredient is 1-chloro-2,2,5,5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone. I keep forgetting on top of my head ingredients like this in which brand is which. I would advise against using Lifeguard. I am a bit at a loss why they would claim it is non-antibiotic despite claiming it would treat early stages of bacterial infection.

Secondly, you are switching the medicines too much. Stop using Melafix. He may still have the will to survive but switching medicines constantly will only be the death of him! Melafix is pointless here. All it does is prevent secondary infections and aid the wound healing but as you are doing water changes, adding Melafix is redundant. It also depletes oxygen so I would not consider this anymore especially as your temperature is quite high.

The black smudges are indeed indication of ammonia burn. Your first test results indicated high ammonia and nitrite, both are highly toxic with ammonia moreso at your high pH. The higher the pH, the more dangerous the ammonia becomes. You're doing the right approach in doing more water changes as was necessary in this situation.

The wen growth is composed of fatty deposits and protein. What have you been feeding the fish? It's strange to hear the wen growth would "explode" in this scenario.

For treatment, erythromycin covers only gram-positive bacteria. It is very difficult to determine exactly which bacteria is affecting the fish which is why broad spectrum antibiotics that cover both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria are often advisable. Kanamycin can solve this or you could combine erythromycin and minocycline. Stick to kanamycin which is less hassle. With dropsy, your target is internal and you should hit that one. Go with epsom salt first to help with the organs. Then try oxolinic acid for a few days as planned. Either this step or go with kanamycin. Doing both seems very stressful for the poor fish. I'd go slow when you treat if I were you.

The trouble with anti-bacterial foods is your fish may not willingly take them which may become a total waste of time. If possible, give it a try. If it doesn't, switch to gel foods and add garlic extracts on it to help persuade the fish to eat. Don't overfeed. Siphon the leftovers if not eaten within five minutes and monitor your water parameters as you feed. Remember as well that antibiotics can destroy beneficial bacteria. By destroying the aerobic bacteria, the antibiotics interfere with the nitrogen cycle therefore elevating the ammonia and nitrite dangerously.

Hope this helps.

Lupes