Mixing Mbuna and South American Fish

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dgebhart

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Oct 4, 2013
24
1
3
Sacramento, CA
So I have a 55g tank which currently has:
1x 5" electric blue jack dempsey
2x 4" blood parrot

I am looking to add some fish, and my wife really wants something colorful. She really likes the mbuna assortment at our LFS, but I have always heard that its a bad idea to mix mbuna with south american. As I search, it seems like the most prevalent reason is that they have different water requirements, but then I also read that water requirements aren't a big deal if they are used to a lower pH/different hardness. Then there are several people who say that they have mixed tanks that work great. I came to monster fish keepers because over the time I have really learned to trust the community here. I just want to hear your opinions about this. If you don't think the mix would work, I am open to some suggestions about other colorful fish that would work in the tank.
 
If you don't want to read my entire post, here's the summary: if these are fish bred and raised fish they will survive assuming no aggression issues and other basic fish husbandry is followed (not overstocking, water changes, OVER filtration, etc.).

Now on to the long version:
Whether the mix would work from an aggression standpoint, I can't comment on as I don't have experience with that.

As for whether south american cichlids and african cichlids can survive together in the same aquarium, the short answer is probably. I assume you are not buying wild caught fish, as those who do likely would not risk keeping them in "unnatural" settings due to cost/rarity. So, since you are purchasing tank bred and raised fish it will likely not be a problem. Will you be able to provide "ideal" water conditions for all the fish in the tank - NO. But, to be completely honest pretty much none of us do. It is virtually impossible to completely mimic nature. Many people will tell you that african cichlids require a much higher pH than south american cichlids, but the honest truth is that stable water conditions are much more important than keeping the pH at ~8.0. Also, very few fish farms keep their water at the "ideal natural" conditions. If the fish are breeding they are happy.

Now, I do feel that it is our duty as fish keepers to provide the best conditions possible, and one could make the argument that you would not be if you mix African and South American cichlids. But, again we are keeping fish that come from massive lakes/rivers and putting them in comparably tiny glass or acrylic boxes. You have to decide what "proper conditions" means for you and your wife.
 
I would leave the stock as is. Give it some time and those 3 fish you have will fill that tank out.


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Wild JDs are from mineral rich waters of Mexico, this water chemistry isn't that different from the parameters of rift lake species.
That said, both your fish are line bred/aquarium strain fish, so mimicking any natural mineral concentration should not be an issue.
And most rift lake species found in LFSs should also be accustomed to your local waters.
But rift lake species can be aggressive, and like to live in groups, and in a small tank like a 55 may make mincemeat of your EBJD, and as ehh said, the 3 you have already are near the capacity of a 55.
 
Water chemistry doesn't have as much to do with it as behavior does. They have different ways of claiming territory and different ways of showing aggression and submission. In short most new world cichlids claim a territory and defend that territory and many Africans will have a pecking order 1 fish will be king of the tank and then second and third.

Notice I said many and not all. There are some exceptions. Yellow labs or yellow tail acei may work if they are smaller and won't challenge the JD's territory. But as said before you are fully stocked in your 55 so if you want to add fish upgrade to a 75.

I just realized you have EBJD and not JD. I wouldn't add any Africans at all they will stress and kill your ebjd. ebjd are known for being very susceptible to stress and mbuna are very stressful. Shoot they stress me out.
 
Rivers has it right. Simply put Mbuna and C/A and S/A do not speak the same language. I have a funny story from when I tried this many years ago. I had a Jack Dempsey that was dominant along with several other CA fish. I added an auratus to the mix. This auratus decides he will be boss and starts swimming around the JD nipping his tail. I assume you know that is how Mbuna fight. The Dempsey is weirded out because he`s never dealt with this kind of non-sense before and he starts trying to fight in the conventional way with gill flairing and the side slapping but this does`nt work. The auratus is still zooming around in circles so the JD kind of rears back and lunges forward grabbing the auratus by the head in an attempt to lock jaws, CA style. After a couple jaw clenches the Dempsey spits the defeated auratus out, who then drifts listlessly into a cave to rethink his life. I still chuckle whenever that comes to mind.
 
I'm no expert on all things C/A but i've had the 'colorful fish' request handed down to me in the past as well. I was able to make her happy with a couple salvini's and half dozen clown loaches. Everyone gets along fine. Assuming you sort out your tank size, give them a look. I just added a juvinile synspilum which looks like it should have some awesome colors when it grows bigger as well. Also in the tank is an oscar and a JD along with a baby green terror. This is in a 125.
 
rolandk10 said:
I'm no expert on all things C/A but i've had the 'colorful fish' request handed down to me in the past as well. I was able to make her happy with a couple salvini's and half dozen clown loaches. Everyone gets along fine. Assuming you sort out your tank size, give them a look. I just added a juvinile synspilum which looks like it should have some awesome colors when it grows bigger as well. Also in the tank is an oscar and a JD along with a baby green terror. This is in a 125.
Click to expand...


For a 55 gallon, I would be cautious adding even juvenile Salvini's. They can be hyper aggressive and you certainly do not want a Salvini pair in a 55 gallon. Clown loaches will eventually get to be around 12" each, so be sure to only add either of these if you are prepared to upgrade significantly. You could probably get away with adding a few African Cichlids, but again, in a 55 gallon, your limited to only getting 3-4 max. Also they might become hostile with the EBJD. If you want some color, maybe try a few firemouths or something similar in size and temperament.
 
Yes. none of my suggestions apply to his 55. As I mentioned, he needs to sort out his tank size. The loaches will grow large but near as I can tell, it will take 10 or more years to get there. Gives plenty of time to upgrade or rehome them as large loaches are hard to come by. My loaches went from 2 inches to 4 inches in 3 years.
 
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