Let's not wait, just make the content now, and if/once MFK decides to fire it back up, we'll send all the content to them!
Monster Fish Keepers Book
- Thread starter Pond Pioneer
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Imo this is a big problem with younger generations: they want everything handed to them on a silver platter all wrapped up and ready to go, "instant knowledge". With fish keeping, particularly monster fish keeping, it just doesn't work that way, there's a learning curve (based on both theoretical and empirical learning) that we all have to go through -- no book (or YouTube video) is going to turn someone into an instant monster fish keeper.
If people don't have the time to research, learn, examine different opinions then form their own, coupled with their own experience, then imo they don't have time to be monster fish keepers, nor are they cut out to be imo. (same thing with those with too much "anxiety" to go onto forums and do the work/research themselves. This hobby takes a lot of patience, determination and also personal trial and even error. Generally speaking, the faint-hearted or those who give up easily don't do well in the hobby -- it takes something called commitment and responsibility.
I'm not discounting the power of YouTube, for sure it is a very powerful media. I like watching aqua videos and learn a lot (and also see a lot of BS).
But btw, have you ever made a YouTube video? If not you'll soon find it takes A LOT of time to make decent videos; pumping out really good videos takes a lot of set-up, production and editing time -- usually hours and hours. It also takes a certain type of personality (charismatic, outgoing, well spoken, etc.) to get higher views/subs.
With this all in mind we really look forward to your first video Pond Pioneer! -- until you set up the tie in with MFK what channel will you be using to upload your videos?
All i have to say that 99% of all youtubers thats showing their monsterfish dont know jack **** about monsterfish keeping. They all do these videos to make some cash. Its thr same as an backyard breeder of dogs or cats. They dont do it for the love of the animal but for the love of the quick cash.
You mentioned zack catch em. Hes an total dork and have not a clue of what hes doing at all. Same goes with joey slay em, paul cuffaro and all the other guys.
Its bs like this that gets the hobby an bad reputation IMHO.
You mentioned zack catch em. Hes an total dork and have not a clue of what hes doing at all. Same goes with joey slay em, paul cuffaro and all the other guys.
Its bs like this that gets the hobby an bad reputation IMHO.
The problem I see with making monster fish keeping more/too popular, is that it invites people that don’t have the space, time, or energy, and means to devote to such a demanding endeavor.
Space is very important, if a person lives in a small apartment, do they have room for a 300 gallon tank? Will landlord allow it?
Will the inevitable water splash and dampness ruin the place?
If they have a demanding job, is there enough time and energy to devote the amount and frequency of water changes larger fish require?
Is there enough time for a dabbler to learn the intricacies of the needs of the selected fish?
And lastly (although there are many more less obvious reasons) are they willing or able to shell out the cash for a large enough tank or enclosure to house these monster fish?
Or the monthly expenses associated with the running of large tanks? (water, electricity, meds, heating, adequate hospital and quarantine tanks)
And relating this all to MFK, I see quite a separation of opinions of members regarding these requirements.
I was just reading a thread where some members were saying a 75 gal tank is large enough (humane enough?) to comfortably keep Parachromis managuense for life, which IMO, is woefully inadequate and short sighted.
Or those, that believe a 100 gallon or slightly larger tank is enough room for a dovii, stingray, or arowana for life, whereas many aquarists with actual experience in these species might hesitate to consider a 300 gallon tank large enough.
Sure many of the above fish might survive under less than ideal circumstances, but is simple survival the operative word?
Space is very important, if a person lives in a small apartment, do they have room for a 300 gallon tank? Will landlord allow it?
Will the inevitable water splash and dampness ruin the place?
If they have a demanding job, is there enough time and energy to devote the amount and frequency of water changes larger fish require?
Is there enough time for a dabbler to learn the intricacies of the needs of the selected fish?
And lastly (although there are many more less obvious reasons) are they willing or able to shell out the cash for a large enough tank or enclosure to house these monster fish?
Or the monthly expenses associated with the running of large tanks? (water, electricity, meds, heating, adequate hospital and quarantine tanks)
And relating this all to MFK, I see quite a separation of opinions of members regarding these requirements.
I was just reading a thread where some members were saying a 75 gal tank is large enough (humane enough?) to comfortably keep Parachromis managuense for life, which IMO, is woefully inadequate and short sighted.
Or those, that believe a 100 gallon or slightly larger tank is enough room for a dovii, stingray, or arowana for life, whereas many aquarists with actual experience in these species might hesitate to consider a 300 gallon tank large enough.
Sure many of the above fish might survive under less than ideal circumstances, but is simple survival the operative word?
What
duanes
says above is absolutely spot on.
Turning for a moment back to YouTubers, I would like to clarify that I personally wouldn't lump in Predatory Fins with some of the other jokers mentioned. First, they openly and clearly present themselves as monster fish retailers (and have stocking/pricing videos), that is their business and fair enough. Secondly while I won't say they're perfect or don't engage in a bit of sensationalism sometimes, overall they have very good content, knowledge and as far as I can see keep their fish in appropriately sized tanks, esp. for a retailer. You can also see they care about their personal fish and other pets like their turtles.
In fact by watching Predatory Fins -- and others like Ohio Fish Rescue (https://www.youtube.com/user/bigrich545/videos) as well as our own Viktor's Fish Story Aquarium & Rescue (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCeGmoYYJt8egvpvCgAbbJg/videos) -- those new and old to the hobby can get a great perspective on what we need to keep monster fish, as well as associated challenges like moving big tanks and humongous fish. I don't begrudge any of these 3 channels making some money from YouTube and our viewership, as they all do so in a pretty responsible manner and with the goal to educate as well.
Now if we can only get Viktor to smile in some of his videos he'd be cracking more than 10,000 subs in no time!
(he's actually a handsome chap, I'm sure the ladies (and some lads too for that matter) would be flocking to his channel, which certainly deserves any benefits more than some jokers like Paul Cuffaro spinning wheels to pick which fish they're going to buy that day to make a new video.
duanes
says above is absolutely spot on.Turning for a moment back to YouTubers, I would like to clarify that I personally wouldn't lump in Predatory Fins with some of the other jokers mentioned. First, they openly and clearly present themselves as monster fish retailers (and have stocking/pricing videos), that is their business and fair enough. Secondly while I won't say they're perfect or don't engage in a bit of sensationalism sometimes, overall they have very good content, knowledge and as far as I can see keep their fish in appropriately sized tanks, esp. for a retailer. You can also see they care about their personal fish and other pets like their turtles.
In fact by watching Predatory Fins -- and others like Ohio Fish Rescue (https://www.youtube.com/user/bigrich545/videos) as well as our own Viktor's Fish Story Aquarium & Rescue (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCeGmoYYJt8egvpvCgAbbJg/videos) -- those new and old to the hobby can get a great perspective on what we need to keep monster fish, as well as associated challenges like moving big tanks and humongous fish. I don't begrudge any of these 3 channels making some money from YouTube and our viewership, as they all do so in a pretty responsible manner and with the goal to educate as well.
Now if we can only get Viktor to smile in some of his videos he'd be cracking more than 10,000 subs in no time!
(he's actually a handsome chap, I'm sure the ladies (and some lads too for that matter) would be flocking to his channel, which certainly deserves any benefits more than some jokers like Paul Cuffaro spinning wheels to pick which fish they're going to buy that day to make a new video.
Speaking of educational videos, those thinking about buying a monster fish should watch vids like this new one from Ohio Fish Rescue, reality check time -- moving a 3 ft. Pacu from a 125! Talk about surviving vs thriving, at least it should be happy in its new bigger home.
I think the OP has come up with a good idea regarding an ultimate guide to keeping monster fish. I'm not sure it needs to be in a book for reasons already mentioned. I'd like to see MFK care sheets on this very site, open up more sub forums or something along those lines.
We all look at care sheets on the web, some info is good and some not, some contradict each other. Imagine care sheets produced by guys on this very forum who have had years and years of hands on experience keeping the fish. The ultimate no bullshit go to guide for keeping fish.
We choose a fish, guys who have kept said fish all muck in with the facts and slowly but surely we will end up with a huge catalogue of valuable information. They'd be like stickies for each fish.
It sounds very simple but I imagine it could be a potential nightmare for the mods, a lot of work involved.
There is a very big but though in all this fish keeping guide idea. I still think that no matter how concise and accurate the care sheets are, it is vitally important that any fish keeper taking on the fish needs to be at a certain level at expertise in the first place. Don't forget, the guide is only, well, a guide. Without a degree of base knowledge/experience then our guides will be useless.
It brings us back to total newbies taking on red tailed cats and such.
We all look at care sheets on the web, some info is good and some not, some contradict each other. Imagine care sheets produced by guys on this very forum who have had years and years of hands on experience keeping the fish. The ultimate no bullshit go to guide for keeping fish.
We choose a fish, guys who have kept said fish all muck in with the facts and slowly but surely we will end up with a huge catalogue of valuable information. They'd be like stickies for each fish.
It sounds very simple but I imagine it could be a potential nightmare for the mods, a lot of work involved.
There is a very big but though in all this fish keeping guide idea. I still think that no matter how concise and accurate the care sheets are, it is vitally important that any fish keeper taking on the fish needs to be at a certain level at expertise in the first place. Don't forget, the guide is only, well, a guide. Without a degree of base knowledge/experience then our guides will be useless.
It brings us back to total newbies taking on red tailed cats and such.
Ok, i finally read this thread and Miguel's PMs. I don't think I can say much that'd be useful or new but anyhow...
If I may crudely dissect this bear of a problem (in my view)...
[1] At the foundation I think lies the well known challenge that for any field to thrive and evolve, the information on the state of the art in that field needs to be available, it needs to be clear, it needs to be comprehensive, deep enough, and trustworthy.
[2] From my doing homework on MFK for the last 10 years, my personal view has developed that MFK is not a user friendly place to do one's homework. It is quite a difficult place because there is
-- too much off topic or merely unneeded filler and
-- too many (99%?) unfinished threads with no follow through and
-- too much superficial and redundant info, or curt advices to the point of them being not helpful, one liners and
-- too many unneeded threads - for each update or a photo or a video, many MFKers start a new thread, while the fish is the same, and
-- often no way to know if a person's post in any given thread is (likely) trustworthy and experience based or not.
[3] The MFK reporting culture has apparently been left to itself, to a random evolution and it seems to me it has been slowly eroding toward the mainstream online social media, while MFK can't compete with FB and such and needs an edge to survive. It needs to offer something no other media have. The edge could have been the quality info on all the aspects of our hobby, while keeping the solid socialization platform... but separate.
[4] Which is why reading this thread and this whole MFK book ordeal keeps bringing my mind back to my suggestion I have been making to the mod team for the last 5 years that we could mightily benefit from reworking the forum format and keeping the social and free platform but also introducing the "condensed essential experience and knowledge only" platform, wherein I envisioned threads where only an OP can post and is expected to post from a fish acquisition to fish death all the significant learnings and observations supported and augmented by visuals and these threads would be organized by species, genus, and family.
I imagine this would be the backbone of our success.
Each "experience and knowledge-only" thread can or should feature a link to a satellite thread where all discussion related to this thread can take place and everyone can post there.
[5] This would take a long time and a consistent, responsible, and dedicated effort from everyone, but that's quality labor in - quality fruit out scenario. This is the exact opposite of the well known principle GIGO, garbage in - garbage out, or in other words, anything worth fighting for needs to be fought for.
[6] I am trying my humble best to practice what I preach in this post and everyone who reads my threads on each fish we have or had can make up their mind whether they like it and want to see more of it or whether it doesn't scratch them where they itch.
[9] I love Miguel's fresh zeal. It seems to me this is about information highways and how poorly they are maintained out there, they are nearly impassable in many cases. But if the roads in our city of MFK are out of order and keep degrading, what's the point in trying to fix them roads in the whole country?
I believe the culture and format of reporting must be shaken up on MFK. I also believe if it was done, any MFK book talk would be moot. It would all already be out there. Only the marketing would remain, if deemed timely and beneficial.
If I may crudely dissect this bear of a problem (in my view)...
[1] At the foundation I think lies the well known challenge that for any field to thrive and evolve, the information on the state of the art in that field needs to be available, it needs to be clear, it needs to be comprehensive, deep enough, and trustworthy.
[2] From my doing homework on MFK for the last 10 years, my personal view has developed that MFK is not a user friendly place to do one's homework. It is quite a difficult place because there is
-- too much off topic or merely unneeded filler and
-- too many (99%?) unfinished threads with no follow through and
-- too much superficial and redundant info, or curt advices to the point of them being not helpful, one liners and
-- too many unneeded threads - for each update or a photo or a video, many MFKers start a new thread, while the fish is the same, and
-- often no way to know if a person's post in any given thread is (likely) trustworthy and experience based or not.
[3] The MFK reporting culture has apparently been left to itself, to a random evolution and it seems to me it has been slowly eroding toward the mainstream online social media, while MFK can't compete with FB and such and needs an edge to survive. It needs to offer something no other media have. The edge could have been the quality info on all the aspects of our hobby, while keeping the solid socialization platform... but separate.
[4] Which is why reading this thread and this whole MFK book ordeal keeps bringing my mind back to my suggestion I have been making to the mod team for the last 5 years that we could mightily benefit from reworking the forum format and keeping the social and free platform but also introducing the "condensed essential experience and knowledge only" platform, wherein I envisioned threads where only an OP can post and is expected to post from a fish acquisition to fish death all the significant learnings and observations supported and augmented by visuals and these threads would be organized by species, genus, and family.
I imagine this would be the backbone of our success.
Each "experience and knowledge-only" thread can or should feature a link to a satellite thread where all discussion related to this thread can take place and everyone can post there.
[5] This would take a long time and a consistent, responsible, and dedicated effort from everyone, but that's quality labor in - quality fruit out scenario. This is the exact opposite of the well known principle GIGO, garbage in - garbage out, or in other words, anything worth fighting for needs to be fought for.
[6] I am trying my humble best to practice what I preach in this post and everyone who reads my threads on each fish we have or had can make up their mind whether they like it and want to see more of it or whether it doesn't scratch them where they itch.
[9] I love Miguel's fresh zeal. It seems to me this is about information highways and how poorly they are maintained out there, they are nearly impassable in many cases. But if the roads in our city of MFK are out of order and keep degrading, what's the point in trying to fix them roads in the whole country?
I believe the culture and format of reporting must be shaken up on MFK. I also believe if it was done, any MFK book talk would be moot. It would all already be out there. Only the marketing would remain, if deemed timely and beneficial.
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I really, REALLY like this idea Viktor. Inbox me, let's hash it out and see if we come up with something workable.
I think this should be quite doable.
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