More Controversial Jack...

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Calihawk

Plecostomus
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Dec 15, 2010
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...discussion, LOL. I posted this on the CA/SA section but since Electrics have never really been found in its "native" locations then this would be a problem in its own. JK

OKAY, now the REAL reason why I posted...I recently found these pics from pbase.com by Steve. He calls this one Taiwanese Blue Dempsey.
27709696_TaiwaneseBlueDempsey02m.jpg

Steve calls this one Nandopsis octofasciatum Blue (Blue Jack Dempsey)
15160843_BlueDempsey02m.jpg

27709696_TaiwaneseBlueDempsey02m.jpg

15160843_BlueDempsey02m.jpg
 
OK I know what some people will say already, that they are one and the same....but they are not. They are as different as Texas and Carpintis which to most people are 2 different species, but same genus. But as far as all that BS goes even the Ichthyologists are stupidly changing genus of cichlids back and forth. So genus and names are pointless but we can clearly see the scaling designs/markings are Different.

The Taiwanese (as Steve listed) or Powder Blue (as I would call it) has "worm patterns" and all the fins look natural, not that ripped/tattered look.

The Blue, or what we're used to calling Electric, have all the colors sorta fused together. Also NOTE: the dorsal fins only go halfway before the rest of it is "fused" together. The caudal has that look as well.
 
I'd assume that they're just line bred JDs (Rocio species), developed by man to accentuate certain mutations.

They're no more a new species than a fancy guppy is a different species than a wild guppy.

Whether people who breed and sell them want to call them a different common name is up to them.

Matt
 
Yeah def., Also Im not saying that these are new, but just think that they are 2 distinctively different kinds. Here are some vids
Look at the definition of the markings
[video=youtube;LcLa72cEgh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcLa72cEgh8&feature=related[/video]
 
Now look at the difference...I know its a tough claim because we can't go get them from an actual location point.
[video=youtube;z6dc3KGfb3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6dc3KGfb3M&feature=related[/video]
 
A Jack is a Jack is a Jack (is a Rocio or if you prefer xCichlasoma octofasciatum), unless you've got a DNA test that disputes it. As Dogofwar stated, a red guppy is as guppy as a blue one or a black one. You or I could call it electric, or baby blue, but it doesn't really mean anything. And just as letting a St. Bernard breed off its line a few generations to become a generic looking dog, taking the line out of an Electric Blue Jack to breed on its own, it will revert to its generic form, still a Jack.
 
I dont think that there are enough studies or substantial evidence to justify anything concrete. Its still a theoritical toss-up.

But DNA would still be irrelevant depending on what was researched and what for. Would the DNA be tested btw the "Powder", and "Electric" or just to regular Jacks? And are there DNA results on Texas cichlids and Carpintis?

Also what good will the DNA tests be if it truly is a Hybrid anyways...as AquaMojo stated.
 
I can't believe people are still beating on the EBJD dead horse and suggesting they might be hybrids. If you go and read how hybridization and line breeding actually work you won't be suggesting this nonsense.

Start breeding a Flowerhorn (actual hybrids) to a pure related species (wild caught Trimac) and try getting the same results you get when you breed EBJDxJD. You won't. Instead you will get a random mixture of low quality hybrids that might or might not look anything like their parents, and will be increasingly hard to tell apart with every generation. You will never get 25% pure Flowerhorn or 25% pure Trimac because with real hybrids, unlike EBJD, there's thousands of different genes at play with every spawn. This "controversy" is only in your head.

But hey if people believe Umbee/Oscar hybrids exist out there I guess they will believe anything lol
 
The different varieties of "fancy" JDs are like the different varieties of "fancy" guppies (bettas, etc.).

Of course guppies with long red tails are genetically different than wild ones (or ones with long blue tails)...but they're all "guppies" (Poecilia reticulata).

Whether multiple more recently described species that used to all be classified as P. reticulata (or Cichlasoma octofasciata) were used in developing fancy guppies or fancy JDs is another (really not too relevant) issue...

Matt



Calihawk said:
I dont think that there are enough studies or substantial evidence to justify anything concrete. Its still a theoritical toss-up.

But DNA would still be irrelevant depending on what was researched and what for. Would the DNA be tested btw the "Powder", and "Electric" or just to regular Jacks? And are there DNA results on Texas cichlids and Carpintis?

Also what good will the DNA tests be if it truly is a Hybrid anyways...as AquaMojo stated.
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