what the heck, dang PC link. Look up pseudoplatystoma and click on hybrid 3. Link won't seem to work.
More Stupidity at my one LFS (Please Rescue these catfish)
- Thread starter divemaster99
- Start date
what the heck, dang PC link. Look up pseudoplatystoma and click on hybrid 3. Link won't seem to work.
As i often state, im no expert. I know a guy who has some large soribum, and theyr alot thicker than the elongatus than ive seen. I'm not saying that you should shove information peoples throat, and yes treat people, like you wanna be treated, is always a good ideaBut, stilll that girl, either knew what she was selling, or she should have said she didnt know. Sometimes if i confuse people, its not because i mean too, but because of my bad english.
I dont think an Soribum Lima would outgrow an 75, atleast it would take some time. I've heard some people say it will get to large, others say it dont. TSN's are as you know beasts, and even tho theyr meny places listed as only needing an 180g............ you know all thisFrom what i've heard all the TSN's get to about the same size, without alot of difference, again im no expert.
Again, i think that girl at the fishstore, did wrong by either lying or telling someone, about something she knew nothing about, no matter what it would have had the same result... a fish that grows to 30", in a 55g..
Sorry, Karl. I typed too hastily. The meaning is there but I should have chosen kinder words. Shoving down the throat was not referred to you but in general to all the people strongly prone to teaching others without even caring if they want their "teaching".
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As for lima vs elongatus:
Lima maxes out at 2', elongatus at 1'.
Check out this thread which includes a relevant piece from the genus revision: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...elongatus-ID-thread&highlight=trigonocephalus
Here is a small write-up I made on lima/elongatus.
These are ambush predators that stay/float vertically, head down among vegetation pretending to be a twig or a plant and wait for a suitable prey to come by too close.
Young Sorubim species like the company of each other; adults don't care.
IME and IMO, the vast majority of people thinking they are buying a Sorubim lima are actually buying a Sorubim elongatus in the US, so chances are great that yours is S. elongatus, which tops out at 1', not 2' as S. lima does.
They are quite hard to tell apart from the exterior features for laymen like us: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=30938&hilit=+elongatus (that's one of mine I was trying hard to ID). As you could see, our colleague Back (high level hobbyist) from Finland thinks the position of the mandibular barbels with respect to the gular and other skull features may be telling. I do not remember this approach having been validated by a known respected ichthyologist but I think the latest genus revision justifies this ID approach.
I've never seen a 2' one in person, not even one longer than 11"-12" TL, while I have owned and seen scores of them. Mine never grew beyond ~11", which makes me assume they were all elongatus but I have not had them long enough to be dead sure. For now, this leads me to believe that most/almost all we have in the US are elongatus. I have seen only 1 or 2 approximately two-footers on the photos originating from the USA here on MFK (here are some pics of an almost fully grown lima: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...e-lima-shovelnose-catfish&highlight=elongatus ) and a few in between 1' and 2'. Our colleagues in Europe say they see 2'-ers sometimes, not that rarely.
The Cat-eLog entry for elongatus http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=697offers kind of soft ID: "...Very generally, Sorubim with spots are usually S. elongatus. (TBTB edit: as opposed to the other 4 species in this genus; this appears mostly true IME with ~20 of these fish.) They are more of a black water species and, as with most such species, tend towards more variable, spotted patterning."
They need not live feedings, unless we are talking earth worms or ghost shrimp, lizards, land frogs, etc. They are small predators that snatch small fish (anything that can fit in their mouth which is relatively and surprisingly big for their slender body structure but not that big compared to other medium and large Pimelodidae catfish), crustaceans, insects in the wild. I always feed mine frozen/thawed foods - small whole fishes, fish pieces, shrimp/prawn/etc. or their pieces if too large (do not peel; raw is better than cooked), and sea foods.
They can be trained to take pellets but the cases where they thrive on pellets are very few it appears to me, even on Hikari Massivore pellets. I have never seen them fat and happy on pellets, rather always thin and slow-growing. Anyone, correct me, please, if your experience differs.
When small, mine like freeze-dried and fresh bloodworms, plankton (mini-shrimp-like creatures), etc.
The growth on elongatus is not fast, perhaps 6"-7" in one year starting from ~3". As you see my experience with lima is most likely zero, so IDK how fast they grow. The fact that they reach 2x larger adult size may or may not matter.
Check this excellent link: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sorubim-lima/ - the info is well written and arranged. In the notes it says: " (TBTB: S. lima is) Distinguished from S. elongatus by having modally 9 pectoral rays; 21 anal-fin rays; 16 gill rakers..." The page does not state the counts for elongatus anywhere. Neither have I found a species page for S. elongatus. Unless I am missing something, I find this odd and not as helpful as it could have been otherwise. All other pointers refer to things that are subjective. Nevertheless, I enjoyed reading the page and learned a lot.
You wrote that bro? I remember reading that on PC a while back but I didn't bother to look at who wrote it. Very good info there man! I know my good LFS has a "lima" or I'll just say Sorubim sp. I recall seeing faint spots so maybe it was an elongatus. I think it was about 6" last I saw it, do you think that would work in my 75, until I can upgrade? I think I actually had this discussion already on another thread but I can't remember
In Denmark, there seem to be some true Lima's around. I just tryed to find some pictures of a group of large Limas, from a danish forum, no succes tho. I still think that little one divemaster asked to be ided looks like a lima, but im as said no expert, I dont know how juvenile tsns look.
He doesnt look like this guy: http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/categories/product/p-89610-Tiger-shovelnose.jpg. Maybe this one developed hes colouring faster. How ever he looks like this one: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pseudoplatystoma_fasciatum_juvenile_1.jpg So im not so sure on the Lima id anymore Guess i was wrong.
Guess i was wrong.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=2452 This is what a baby looks like (except for the slightly bent snout).
PCF is awaiting a serious re-work of the Cat-eLog TSN entries. It is not a hybrid. PCF knows it. Just waiting for someone to champion the changes - they cannot do all by themselves. Jools (the PCF owner) had told us that this is exactly what baby TSNs looked like when he pulled them out of Amazon himself: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36710&hilit=+baby+tsn+hybrid
BTW: LiveAquaria has a lower reputation. SeriouslyFish is highly reputable.
But apart from all that, the thread Divemaster created on the ID of this fish says it all. The head/body proportions, barbels, coloration, etc. all say TSN.
One needs to compare the same age and size healthy, non-stunted, defect-free, preferentially wild-caught fish, not these inbred runts. TSNs we get in the hobby are farm-raised and often get stunted at a very early age and carry gene defects etc. Still, with all that, to me, I stress to me, it is clearly a TSN. A passing glance was enough.
LSNs are wild-caught.
PCF is awaiting a serious re-work of the Cat-eLog TSN entries. It is not a hybrid. PCF knows it. Just waiting for someone to champion the changes - they cannot do all by themselves. Jools (the PCF owner) had told us that this is exactly what baby TSNs looked like when he pulled them out of Amazon himself: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36710&hilit=+baby+tsn+hybrid
BTW: LiveAquaria has a lower reputation. SeriouslyFish is highly reputable.
But apart from all that, the thread Divemaster created on the ID of this fish says it all. The head/body proportions, barbels, coloration, etc. all say TSN.
One needs to compare the same age and size healthy, non-stunted, defect-free, preferentially wild-caught fish, not these inbred runts. TSNs we get in the hobby are farm-raised and often get stunted at a very early age and carry gene defects etc. Still, with all that, to me, I stress to me, it is clearly a TSN. A passing glance was enough.
LSNs are wild-caught.
I usually dont care for quotes but on the Google subject. I use to work at a big name petstore I was the aquatic manager . I found a big problem when it came to ordering fish. A lot of times I found that the names to the fish I was ordering wernt Evan the real names the where changed to make them sound more pleasing. Like when I ordered marbelgar once I received needelnose labeled wrongly. So it's not all the fault of the lfs. At least at the one I worked at I got so irritated with it.till I finalh found out what all the fish really where. Took a long time. Point is yes they should take the time to properly research the fish. But it's not always as sright for word as it seems. I was lucky and had a lot of really knowledgeable customers that didn't mind spending some time talking to me about it all so I could help others out. I'd suggest takeing the.time and talking to the workers there and just have a discussion about the different fish so the get some better knowledge about what there selling and doing. Internet is great but a real friendly rescission sticks in my head much better
