my albino oscar is not an albino oscar but a lutino oscar? wtf? O.O
- Thread starter flowerhornfishman
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Your both correct and I'll explain why and cite more then one site's article.
Flowerhornfishman you tend to get a little flustered when ever I try share the benefit of my knowledge. Surprising since not long ago you where thanking me for helping you differentiate Red Devils from Flowerhorns among other things and now counter every thing I say in a thread you are in. I'm not sure if it's because you think I'm trying to belittle you by expressing what I believe or know but I can assure you that's not my intent.
With that said I'll try and help you understand why you can't find any what you call true albino Oscars and hope you take it for what it is, me trying to help. You can't find what you call Albino O's in google because what you describe or think is Albino is actually a Leucistic Oscar which is rarer then an Albino. Here's a pair of what you consider true albino O's which in reality are Leucistic Oscars.
Except they are actually Leucistic Oscars as that's how they are labeled in the Oscar Fish Photo Galleries http://www.oscarfish.com/gallery/ma...um&g2_keyword=Leucistic+oscar&g2_itemId=13922
Here's another pic of Leucistic Oscars
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Albinism is a genetic defect that makes the body incapable of producing melanin, not all pigment. Albinism is most easily distinguished visually from Leucism by an animal presenting with red eyes in fish and certain other animals the color of the animal appears off white rather then true white. The eyes appear red/pink due to the lack of melanin which makes the red of the underlying blood vessels and retina visible through the iris. As such an animal can still present with color but not any melanin based colors so the Albino Oscars even Albino Tiger Oscars with all that red coloration on the body are indeed albinos, hence the names Albino Tiger Oscar.
Sometimes a Albino Oscar will present with dark fins, this is a secondary genetic defect presently unnamed but similar to what Python breeders call the Piedbald. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/piebald/ Piebald is a recessive trait that is partially un-pigmented with variable color and pattern mutations. Below are two examples of the trait being expressed. In an Oscar the trait like in the snakes is expressed by certain parts of the body being colorless while others retain the original color and pattern of their wild counterpart.
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Leucism is a condition in which all pigment is reduced not just melanin. As such they often present with normal colored eyes, this is because the melanocytes of the RPE are not derived from the neural crest, instead an outpouching of the neural tube generates the optic cup which, in turn, forms the retina. As these cells are from an independent developmental origin, they are typically unaffected by the genetic cause of leucism while in Albinism it is affected. If you see an Oscar devoid of color(meaning being white) and the iris of the Oscar is black then the Oscar is Leucistic not Albino.
Here's several links that explain the differences between the traits specifically in Oscars.
Lutino definition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/lutino
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Lutino Essentially a lutino is a name hobbyists gave to any albino bird that expressed higher concentrations of yellow in their body. Since it's introduction some have now started using that term for Oscars exhibiting the same trait. It has no scientific basis and is just like any other common name at least that's to my knowledge as even when you google lutino as a term you hard pressed to find a definition.
A specific article talking about Albinism, Leucism in Oscars
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/oscars/58-what-are-albino-and-lutinos.html
and another
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/oscars/57-albino-vs-lutino.html
Wiki definition of Albinism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism
Wiki definition of Leucism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism
The internet is full of incorrect info. and you have to at very least double check anything you read with other articles otherwise you can be misled. I hope what I've linked for you helps clear things up or at least are food for thought.
Well written
I think the paradox morph is more similar to the presence of normal(dark) coloration found on some albino oscars' fins.
Pic from Ralphdavisreptiles.com
doesnt matter, as long as it exlpains the truth and also it stops confuses us all. hahah
oh yeah, and also. my oscar now is in a 65, is it enough for only just one oscar? wht are other fish tht can fit with it? now it's with a small leopard sailfin pleco. am i overstocked?
I actually agree but didn't use the Paradox since it isn't yet a proven genetic inheritable trait, they just appear in clutches with no rhyme or reason. Whether this is because it's just a genetic trait that breeders have ignored working with or because it's just a un-inheritable genetic aberration or not I thought it would muddy the already murky waters of the discussion. Honestly I was trying to make a very complicated discussion(genetics) as simple as possible and have stumbled at doing so.
It does make me wonder though why Ball Python Genetics are so well documented and Tropical Fish(which are also ornamental pets) Genetics have received so little documentation. Ball Pythons even have a Genetics Wizard that allows you to simply plug in the snakes you have as parents and will tell you the resultant offspring morph(s). Imagine if all the effort in proving things out was put into Tropical Fish Breeding what could be accomplished. Especially since it should be easier to do since we can get more generations out of fish then we can out of snakes in the same amount of time. Then again hybridization and line breeding are looked down upon by quite a bit of the hobby which isn't something BP keepers seem to burden themselves with and may explain why tropical fish hobbyists know so little about fish genetics in comparison to BP genetics.
I haven't been in the reptile game for awhile and have never actually seen a paradox BP but I still go to the Sac expo most years and there are always paradox sand boas it seems. I don't know if it's an inherited trait or just one that's common in sand boas.
Prehistoric pets has been trying for years to determine if paradox was genetic or not because they've had quite a few paradox albinos pop up, sometimes even paradox normals which have splotches of albinism but after all their failed attempts, I believe that it is not genetic and just happens. Their odds of hitting them are higher than with ball pythons because reticulated pythons have clutches of 60+ eggs so since they have not been getting any from those pairings, they pretty much agree that it's just one of those mysteries.
BP's aren't the only ones with hundreds, maybe thousands, of crazy morphs anymore. Reticulated pythons are getting up there, corn snakes, leopard geckos, etc. are all producing pretty insane morphs now. I think just the whole reptile breeding things is more popular than with fish is just simply cuz it's easier. The only thing you need that's extra is an incubator and some tubs whereas breeding fish is way more difficult cuz you also need to keep an eye on water chemistry and find food small enough to feed them and it just seems like it would be a bigger pain in the ass to do. I don't know the first thing about breeding fish, but from seeing vids of everything a fish breeder needs to do to keep the fry alive or even just hatch, I'll stick with breeding snakes instead.
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