My Arapaima Farm tell me what you think

[Fishes33]

oooo T-Rex baby.. hmmm thats too big.. baby velociraptor will do.. id buy one since their no law and permit require of keeping a dinosaur

Anyway, stop arguing, nobody is wrong here, is just you guys got it off with the wrong foot (arguing in different point of view / topic)

A group of people said you shouldnt take wild animal out (just to preserve them, without getting them extinct) and then you got another group of people said their natural habitat is getting destroy (no matter how hard we try, they are gonna be gone)

Its not rocket science to smuggle an illegal animal out of the country and its also not rocket science to follow the cites law and rules of keeping an exotic animal.. If someone wants to do it illegally, let them and let them suffer the consequences too, just leave it to the proper authorities to deal with it..

Its not like one comment or two here will stop the proacher proaching animal..

 

[Zoodiver]

I could care less about your ties to the gov't. To me that means you are paying off someone to get them to turn their backs. I've been working that area of the world for many years.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Talking about collecting rays that aren't legal to take, then saying you are going to captive breed them for conservation. I suggest breeding already captive bred rays, and you respond that you can't get them captive bred. Pick a side and stay on it.

And please avoid personal attacks (ie: Comments about me reading with my goggles on). I'm keeping this strictly buy the numbers, I'd hope a professional business person like you claim to be could have enough respect to treat others on this board the same way.

So again, there is more to exporting these animals that what you say you have done. You seem to be missing that point. Having some body from your gov't ok the facility isn't good enough to ship into the US. Until you have legal importing on BOTH ends, you are supporting the black market animal trade - and I promise you this site won't tolerate that at any level.

 

[csx4236]

Well this is a pretty heated converstaion. I plan on doing some business with this company and importing a large pima for a customers monster tank soon. There will be no way for me to import it unless he has the proper paperwork on his side and i have to do the same with Fish & Wildlife here and get all the approvals before the fish is shipped. If everything goese well it should prove his intentions are legal and moral. Also just alittle more info you can apply for permits in brazil to collect rays and breed them i know a few breeders who have recently tried this, getting brazil to approve the permits is another question but doing it legally is possible.

 

[Apistogramma Master]

I could care less about your ties to the gov't. To me that means you are paying off someone to get them to turn their backs. I've been working that area of the world for many years.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I hope you're not accusing me of bribing gov't officials.

The ONLY reason I mentioned my ties to the local government is so that anyone who is interested in my operation knows that:

- I run a serious operation.
- I have the seal of approval of people WHOSE JOB is to PROTECT this place.

I think it's a little insulting to suggest that the gov't here could be easily bribed, or that they put their own interests before the interests of the people and the place they are elected to serve. I understand that perhaps there's a stereotype that the government down here is lazy, or corrupt. But let me tell you, I work with people who care deeply about the environment, and about the people. Not only that, I work with people who LIVE here, and know their own situation better than anyone else.

It's easy to be an armchair warrior. It's easy to put the blame on those who are far away.

The government here is doing great things for preservation. We are not the bad guys, here. The bad guys are the people who go around destroying the Amazon, in order to fulfill a demand for "products," from people who are far away, and detached from what's really going on, around here, or simply don't care.

I feel privileged in what I do. Not only do I help the environment where I live, but I have a chance to share its beauty with people who love the Amazon, the world over. Of course I run a profit operation, but I never denied it. If anything, I think it makes the whole thing a lot sweeter. I'm getting paid to help and do good things? How lucky can a guy get?

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Talking about collecting rays that aren't legal to take, then saying you are going to captive breed them for conservation. I suggest breeding already captive bred rays, and you respond that you can't get them captive bred. Pick a side and stay on it.

I mentioned this before, I AM NOT TAKING RAYS ILLEGALLY. I'm glad we agree on the environmental side of the issue, that is, it's better to breed the rays, than to get them from the wild, especially since many species are endangered in the wild.

The only thing I said is that it is really hard to get rays. Do you think it's better for me to outright lie, or dwell in gray areas? I could easily do that, you know. Instead, I'm trying to be honest, and tell the situation the way I've observed it, and for that, I get accused of being an environmental monster, or a flip flopper.

By the way: the local government here has close ties with the Brazilian government. Their wildlife dept. is right across the border. They can LEGALLY give us the rays we need.

And please avoid personal attacks (ie: Comments about me reading with my goggles on). I'm keeping this strictly buy the numbers, I'd hope a professional business person like you claim to be could have enough respect to treat others on this board the same way.

I agree with you on this. Which is why I don't appreciate the innuendo that I don't run a legal/legitimate operation, and I certainly don't appreciate others questioning my professionalism.

So, yeah, I'm sorry if I come across a little too brashly, I simply treat people the same way I'm treated.

So again, there is more to exporting these animals that what you say you have done. You seem to be missing that point. Having some body from your gov't ok the facility isn't good enough to ship into the US. Until you have legal importing on BOTH ends, you are supporting the black market animal trade - and I promise you this site won't tolerate that at any level.

I happen to be from Los Angeles. I ran an aquarium shop there for years, before coming to Peru. I've always been on the legit side, I know how the business works on the US side.

From the get go, I'm getting this vibe that you think I'm some sort of illegal trader, or poacher, or a lot of things I'm not. I'm not a monster, man. It's just too bad that you think that way.

 

[Zoodiver]

I see too many people get on forums like this and talk of bringing in animals that 99% of the general public can't handle... like arapaima gigas. Then they show complete lack of judgement and sell to anyone with a credit card - no matter what state they are in and what size tank they have. I hate that.

If you can provide correct papers to export under CITES and won't sell to people who can't prove they have a tank or are in a state where they are banned and you'll be on my good side. I have to deel with too many people and US F&W grabbing stuff and sending owners to jail. It's not fun. I just want people to be smart about what they buy.

 

[cichlaguapote]

Then they show complete lack of judgement and sell to anyone with a credit card - no matter what state they are in and what size tank they have. I hate that.

I hear you on the illegal part and agree 100% but fact is as you well know Apisto Master aside money rules this hobby especially when you're talking sellers/importers. 75% of all fish are probably sold to people who will mistreat and don't have a large enough tank. Bet I could call a number of very reputable vendors and order one without being asked if I had the big tank as a condition of selling me one.

And I know a couple people who have bought them and won't have large enough tanks so I guess are planning on a bar-b-que later. Does that make them bad people? IDK I guess it's in the eyes of the beholder.

My .02 on tank size questioning from sellers.

 

[David R]

Its a tough question, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't believe its up to the importer/shop to refuse to sell a fish because the buyer doesnt have a huge tank waiting, as long as they are informed of the potential size and know what they're getting into then the seller has done their bit. IMO its not fair to expect the seller to play policeman, no other industry does that. Can you imagine being refused a big mac because you'd already had 4 that week??

 

[fishloverblake]

i think Apistogramma Master is a good guy, hes not doing anything wrong, give him a break.

 

[krzr3000]

Its a tough question, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't believe its up to the importer/shop to refuse to sell a fish because the buyer doesnt have a huge tank waiting, as long as they are informed of the potential size and know what they're getting into then the seller has done their bit. IMO its not fair to expect the seller to play policeman, no other industry does that. Can you imagine being refused a big mac because you'd already had 4 that week??

But these are live animals not food or nonliving goods. It also comes down to the fish shops, is it right for a fish shop owner to not make sure someone has the appropriate setup for something (even when its apparent they don't)? Just so he can make money? Its a major problem with the entire pet industry and all it is is showing a lack of responsibility.

 

[anythingfish.com]

But these are live animals not food or nonliving goods. It also comes down to the fish shops, is it right for a fish shop owner to not make sure someone has the appropriate setup for something (even when its apparent they don't)? Just so he can make money? Its a major problem with the entire pet industry and all it is is showing a lack of responsibility.

It is called business... There are very few businesses that will tell someone not to buy there products? The pet industry just needs to be more educated, but with the decline of good pet stores I don't see that happening. You will never be able to make them responsable, I was buying arrowana's when I had a 30 gallon tank, but as soon as the arrow started growing I bought a bigger tank & so on & so on.

Just so he can make money?

to eat & pay rent, most pet stores do not make a profit......