My Giant Boner.
- Thread starter pelleeklund
- Start date
Everybody has great points, thank you all very much. I believe that the initial shock of the cold water may have weakened the fishes systems and allowed them to become sick. Osmostic shock was my first guess and I had used salt to try and help two days ago but that may have been too late. Today I added the aquasafe and a dose of melafix which I hope will eventually get these guys off the gravel and eating, but as of yet no such luck. My tank parameters were actually right before I did the change but the ammonia was a bit high and the algae growth was unbearable. They are still decent but the ph is slightly alkaline which is possibly from the hose water or the salt I added. Either way I think I may have acted to late for the smallest oscar, he really looks like hell. Besides not eating the other bigger cichlids look like they could pull through but their sluggishness is worrying me. I'm almost certain osmostic shock happened and afterward whatever bacteria was present may have contributed to the white spots and cloudy eye symptoms. I churned up serious waste that day and the tank took a bit to settle. A new development I have noticed is that my heater may be malfunctioning and the tank temp is only about 68 degrees, way to low to help these guys fight off disease. Ive added a separate 200 watt heater in hopes that the temp will raise. I'm wondering if this may have also contributed to the recent problem. When it rains here, it pours. Hopefully the heat will help a bit, I'll keep everyone posted. By the way has anyone ever had trouble with the finnex titanium heaters maintaining temperatures? I have a 500 watter but i'm wondering if that is enough to get through the winter. (It's this tanks first winter.) Maybe 800 wouldn't have been overkill after all. Thanks again for all of your very helpful and concise thoughts. This may be the first post yet where I haven't been berated for my big tank growing pains.
pelleeklund;3750403; said:
I don't think you understand water chemistry at all. Salt is not in any way related to pH, and there is no level of ammonia that is acceptable. If your tank had ammonia in it before you did this, there was another major problem all together.
Algae is from elevated nitrates and lack of water changes.
I noticed that you have not posted your water parameters. What were your nitrates and GH before this? What are they now? What are your levels fro ammonia and nitrite?
If you are treating for osmotic shock, are you treating for it knowing what your GH was and is or are you treating for it at random? How much salt did you add?
Even if you had dechlorinator at the time of the water change, it was your intention to use cold water?!?! The thermal shock is what caused the slime coats to drop off. The lack of dechlorinator it what is causing the deaths by respiration difficulties and the lack of buoyancy could be osmotic shock, but you haven't described the symptoms of osmotic shock properly, so I question if that is playing a role or not. Once teh slime coats were stripped off and the gills burned by the dechlorinator any bacterial/fungal infection that wanted to set in could. If the nitrates were low enough before the water change, they wouldn't have been able to take hold. It all depends on the condition of the water before this mishap.
You got me. I never check or understand any levels. I was trying to b.s. past those questions. I usually just try to do water changes every two weeks and base my judgements on how i'm doing by the fishes behavior. Don't really run into many problems, but when I do and it's outside of my realm, I jump on this website for ideas. I missed a couple opportunities to change the water recently though and as i said overreacted when I got the time, I guessed that this caused the problem, and now I just have been trying to piece together what it could be based off what i'm reading from other similar posts. i'm just throwing some **** at the wall to see what sticks and apparently none has yet. But yes if admitting I don't understand water chemistry will help, then it's true i don't.
I am really pleased to see you admit that you don't understand. Its a lot easier to help you when you start out that way. Helping someone who knows it all is quite challenging.
Would you like to learn it?
Its not that hard.
Step one... go get some test kits. A cycled tank would rarely need to be tested for ammonia or nitrite, but a mature tank should be tested for nitrate, pH, KH and GH once in a while. Dip stick test strips are useless. A test that uses liquid drops in a test tube is what you want. API is my first choice, but there are other good brands as well. This kit will do pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't have plants the only other things to watch are KH and GH. And those don't need to be tested very often. If you know some one that has a KH and GH test kit... share them, if not, spend the extra $6 and have them. The nitrite and ammonia tests are something that would get used on a mature tank in the even of an emergency, such as what you just experienced, they would not be needed often unless you were cycling a tank.
It would be my pleasure to walk you through a crash course in water chemistry if you want one.
Would you like to learn it?
Its not that hard.
Step one... go get some test kits. A cycled tank would rarely need to be tested for ammonia or nitrite, but a mature tank should be tested for nitrate, pH, KH and GH once in a while. Dip stick test strips are useless. A test that uses liquid drops in a test tube is what you want. API is my first choice, but there are other good brands as well. This kit will do pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If you don't have plants the only other things to watch are KH and GH. And those don't need to be tested very often. If you know some one that has a KH and GH test kit... share them, if not, spend the extra $6 and have them. The nitrite and ammonia tests are something that would get used on a mature tank in the even of an emergency, such as what you just experienced, they would not be needed often unless you were cycling a tank.
It would be my pleasure to walk you through a crash course in water chemistry if you want one.
I would like to go to school buddy. My only concern is what would be the least expensive and time consuming method of testing. For instance, which levels are most relevant to a healthy tank. I'm obviously not very obsessive when it comes to breaking this down to a science and I worry that if you tell me everything it would seem overwhelming. What would be a very basic way to test for just the most important levels in the tank. Is the API test you were talking about sufficient for somebody like me?
By the way, the big oscar and the dempsey are up off the mat swimming again so I guess yesterdays treatment suited them well.
I'm with kdrun76. Once you initially buy the test kit it'll last you months or longer. You can get the API test kit for $15 plus delivered free to your local walmart at walmart.com Well worth it.
Another thing I'd recommend 200% is a faucet adaptor so you can hook a garden hose up to the closest sink. No sense buying a python water changer, just get the faucet adaptor so you can run same-temp water into your tank. Lugging buckets for a 220 g tank is nuts-as I'm sure you know
I think also that it was the chlorine/chloromaine (sp?) that got to them. I've accidently run cold water into my tanks many times and my fish don't miss a beat. But without declorinator your fish's gills and scales would've been burnt. Oscars and JD's are tough as nails, which would explain why they're up and about.
Another thing I'd recommend 200% is a faucet adaptor so you can hook a garden hose up to the closest sink. No sense buying a python water changer, just get the faucet adaptor so you can run same-temp water into your tank. Lugging buckets for a 220 g tank is nuts-as I'm sure you know
I think also that it was the chlorine/chloromaine (sp?) that got to them. I've accidently run cold water into my tanks many times and my fish don't miss a beat. But without declorinator your fish's gills and scales would've been burnt. Oscars and JD's are tough as nails, which would explain why they're up and about.If your tank is healthy you need to monitor the nitrates. You need to know the base line of pH, KH nad GH so that in the event something goes wrong you know if you are on base with those numbers or not. For me... pH, KH and GH get tested about every 6 weeks, nitrate gets checked weekly. If something goes wrong, ammonia and nitrite also get watched.
The two test kits I recommended (about $28 total) will last you 6-7 years with out needing to be replaced. The only one that will run low is your nitrate test. That will have to be replaced when it runs out and it will before the others as it is the one that gets used so often. They are all you need. And honestly even KH and GH aren't crucial, but are helpful.
On 5 tanks I think it takes me 10-15 min a week to do water tests. I run the KH, GH and pH on one tank a week and all get a nitrate test.
The two test kits I recommended (about $28 total) will last you 6-7 years with out needing to be replaced. The only one that will run low is your nitrate test. That will have to be replaced when it runs out and it will before the others as it is the one that gets used so often. They are all you need. And honestly even KH and GH aren't crucial, but are helpful.
On 5 tanks I think it takes me 10-15 min a week to do water tests. I run the KH, GH and pH on one tank a week and all get a nitrate test.
Thats beautiful. I'm on it. Very manageable cost and effort, thanks. Twistedpenguin also a very good point, I will be picking one up, warm water would be much eaiser for the fish. this has been very helpful guys thank you. I can tell you I have at least learned from a mistake that I won't repeat, and as a bonus may gain the ability to maintain a healthier tank. My Pbass didn't die in vein. Let's hear it for networking with knowledgeable people on a great site.
