My new 1258 Gallon Caiman Tank

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
.....a few more belated thoughts, diet for starters, MY routine was a combination of dusted crickets, lots of fish, mainly trout (just cuz I always have tons of it), sliced and diced chicken cutlets ( small enough to swallow in 1 bite, so the dust doesn't get wasted by thrashing in the water; hemostats of course), mice or rats at least 2x a week, fed concentrations of reptomin and high-protein cichlid pellets or high-end dogfood - I like Canindae, Verus and Science Diet if you can keep them overnight or cycle a new one in the separate tank/cage with food in it. I said separate cuz you don't want a rat to take a bite out of a caiman that's not aware, or just that it's Rule #1 never leave an unattended rodent in a reptile's cage with it. Also, try to get it to eat reptomin as young as possible....pellet food will mellow the aggression and make life easier for both of you. Hikari Cichlid Bio-gold would be great for them too. Protein, protein, protein.

If you haven't heard of them, "Goliath Worms", a trade name for CAPTIVE BRED Tomato or Tobacco Horn Worms ( isay captive bred cuz they eat poisonous plants in the wild - tomato & especially tobacco are toxic to reptiles, dogs, and other animals) have been made readily available in the per trade. Find a reputable dealer, order them by phone, online or purchase them at your Local Reptile Expositions. If you tell me what part of the world you are in I can possibly find someone in your area who has/can find them. 1 Full grown Goliath is about the equivalent of 1-2 DOZEN crickets, and raised and bred healthy lizards on them for the past few years. They are very healthy, no chitinous outershell and add amazing color to your animal. They are fed a mixture of wheat, protein whey, honey bran combination from birth.

Also, after some careful thought if you want to breed, you need to make it bigger. I would push a pair of Curvier's if there was a dry land space with a few hundred pounds of sand for the eggs, but to house a 5.5' male and a 4.5' female, you'll have to expand and make the land area at least the size of the water area. Other options might be building an outdoor compound for them and keeping them outside from start of breeding season until maybe the end of September. In this manner, the light cycle will be natural and nature will tell them when it's time to mate. If you are liking this input, I can walk you through breeding, but I doubt I will have to help much, you seem like a natural tbh. If you aren't liking it, im sorry, I saw you asked for input and this is what I thought of lol Thinking is fun.

Btw, what is your ambient and basking temperatures? They will also appreciate a good misting daily....it rains everyday mostly in the Amazon, so as dumb as it sounds, mist a reptile who spends 75% of it's life in the water :D

Have you considered a medium-sized armored catfish approximately the same size as the Caiman? Not something with a powerful bite, just something peaceful that will get fairly large (3-4 '), maybe a SA Redtail to keep the tank clean and add diversity and entertainment for the Caiman? You could breed Jaguar Cichlids in there if you can keep the ammonia/nitrates down, and section off a 40-50 gallon area for them to breed in, while Caiman proofing the entrance by a series of caves barely big enough for the parent fish to swim through. Pacus would be an excellent choice as well, and he would have a difficult time catching African Mbuna if at all. Finally last but not least, the most common animal kept with crocodilians *drumroll* - yup, u guessed it - turtles. Preferably herbivores, but St. Augustine Alligator Farm has a few Florida and Alligator snapppers in their Intermediate-sized Gator habitat. I wouldn't risk injury to my croc, but they certainly had them together last time I was there.

Have fun.
 
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Thanks for the feedback! Alot of good stuff there, especially about the food. I am feeding him salmon, chicken, whole mice, dried fish, live fish and i dose vitamins/minerals.
The temps are provided with water heater turned on most of the day and evening, 1 ceramic bulb running non stop and 1 spot that runs 7 hours a day. This makes the following 20-24ºC water temp, the spot is 32-35ºC 7 hours a day and the cage is 22-30ºC. In the shaded area is soil he can dig into, cooling him a bit.

But i have to question you regarding the species, i think it is a Paleosuchus Palpebrosus not a Trigonatus, i specifically wanted the cuvier simply because of the smaller size. If you are 100% sure its a Trigonatus, i would really like to hear why because i studied alot of pics primeraly of the skull and i am pretty confident its a Palpebrosus.

Here are some pics of my set up, this is his home for the next 2-3 years, small modifications will be made like im upgrading his water tank to a 125gallon instead of the current 63 gallon.

Heres the spot, to the right under the palm is his burrow, wich is around 8-9inches deep moist soil in shade.
22-01-2016 046.JPG

The cage consists of two parts, the land area and water area (wich is just an aquarium), these parts can be divided and cleaned or upgraded seperatly:
22-01-2016 027.JPG
Temp monitoring spot and water
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A fan running on timer, 15 min per hour makes sure of good ventilation
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I use clay for bottom in the water, gives it a murky effect wich i think gives him a good sense of being camouflaged in the water, downside is, you cant really see him and its kinda hard to make any "aquascaping" im concidering a sand bottom instead.
Plus the waterfall - i've read that the Palpebrosus - more than other species - becomes calmer near the sound of falling water. This is due to the fact that in nature this small species tends to hide in or around hilly areas typically with running water instead of being able to drift around calm in the big bodies of water like the larger species.
22-01-2016 019.JPG

And concerning roommates, i have plecos with my turtles and will defiently try with plecos but only when i change the substrate.
I am not putting the Alligator Snapper in there though, hes fine on his own. My other turtle species are too small. Wouldnt bear if anyone got hurt :)
22-01-2016 060.JPG

Im not concidering breeding nor getting a second one, 1 is enough to handle :) I dont mist in there, the humidity is fine, but when i refill water due to evaporation i use "rain" setting on the garden hose and he has actually moved under the drops once. I am concidering a "rain" system

Thanks for the feedback again and im also chuggin a few beers so cheers
 
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But i have to question you regarding the species, i think it is a Paleosuchus Palpebrosus not a Trigonatus, i specifically wanted the cuvier simply because of the smaller size. If you are 100% sure its a Trigonatus, i would really like to hear why because i studied alot of pics primeraly of the skull and i am pretty confident its a Palpebrosus.
Last picture in your post #18 - You can aways tell by the eyes. I mistook the earlier post and my internal color gauge was "off", maybe the infrared, but have no doubt after seeing a crystal clear shot like in #18 that the eys are nowhere near dark or red enough for Curvier's.

Also, my apologies, I didn't realize you are not the OP. I thought all this time your tank was 1,250 gallons :( My mistake. That guy is from Texas, that's why I suggested an outdoor enclosure.

Basking spot is good, but your ambient and water temps are a bit chilly, keep it closer to 27-30C
 
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brynjar brynjar you might have better results from a titanium heater and they re certainly more durable and shatter proof.....crocodilians do a lot of thrashing when you feed them rodents.....and slamming and rolling and tail-lashing....well, glass is a NO-NO as u may have guessed.

Also, very important, the right catfish is crucial, for instance in the Amazon, what we call the Raphael catfish, is known down there as "Caiman Killer" because of how they make the spikes and spines rigid under attack, in an attempt to choke their attacker to death - so that's a very very poor choice. Plecos might cause similar issues, so I might not do that either, maybe armor should be excluded, cuz I can't think of a better choice than a Channel catfish.
Redtail isn't armored but it does still have a phenomenal bite force, enough to break toes, feet or even legs on a crocodilian similar in size, but the CHannel is perfect....it has size and rapid growth for protection, and a small mouth....even on a 30 incher the mouth will only be about 3-4 inches wide. When I caught 26-29" Channel cats on 10" Creek Chubs, I was shocked that it would even attempt a bait that size - I was fishing for Stripers and Musky in the 20lb class!

I can't think of another catfish from any country that is more compatible, can you?

The trick is putting them together when they are both the same size. Best advice I can give I only know for the 1st year, because I moved it to a 7,500 gallon pond, but 1.) a Channel catfish's growth rate for the 1st year of it's life when kept at 78F (tropical) is 20"-24". Mine went from 3" to 23.5" in a little over 10 months ( figure he was 2-4 months when I bought him).

There's B, you have A and now u gotta solve for "C"
 
Thanks for the advice on the heater, i am in the progress of making the heater external though. Good point on the catfish im taking no chances, i use plecos with the turtles without problems but i'll have to read abit up on the diffrent kinds to make a proper guess.
But would the strat of giving him something thats so small that he barely cares work? Something that wouldn't grow into anything that could impale him :)

Channel Catfish looks awesome though, but way too big brother. Im looking at giving him 800-1000 liters as an adult wich should be fine for him but not for a fish like that :D

Im still in doubt weather its a Trigonatus or Palpebrosus.

I know you mention the red eyes, but i've found care sheets (http://crocodilian.com/paleosuchus/) stating they both have brown eyes.

When looking at these skull photos i also find mine closer to Palpebrosus, but in some comparisons i see some resemblence to Trigonatus. Its really frustrating actually, but he's also a fairly slow grower wich makes me lean toward PalpebrosusPaleosuchus palpebrosus ID.jpgPalpebrosus
Paleosuchus Trigonatus ID.jpg Trigonatussexing1.jpg

IMG_1568.JPG


So thats whats going on :)

IMG_1567.JPG
 
Thanks for the advice on the heater, i am in the progress of making the heater external though. Good point on the catfish im taking no chances, i use plecos with the turtles without problems but i'll have to read abit up on the diffrent kinds to make a proper guess.
But would the strat of giving him something thats so small that he barely cares work? Something that wouldn't grow into anything that could impale him :)

Channel Catfish looks awesome though, but way too big brother. Im looking at giving him 800-1000 liters as an adult wich should be fine for him but not for a fish like that :D

Im still in doubt weather its a Trigonatus or Palpebrosus.

I know you mention the red eyes, but i've found care sheets (http://crocodilian.com/paleosuchus/) stating they both have brown eyes.

When looking at these skull photos i also find mine closer to Palpebrosus, but in some comparisons i see some resemblence to Trigonatus. Its really frustrating actually, but he's also a fairly slow grower wich makes me lean toward PalpebrosusView attachment 1163170Palpebrosus
View attachment 1163171 TrigonatusView attachment 1163172

View attachment 1163174


So thats whats going on :)

View attachment 1163173
Can we get some updates on this guy?
 
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