need help now please

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sorry to hear man, wish i could have helped the stress from being picked on most likely could not cause this alone

I am not familiar with that medication maybe someone else can tell you if its safe or not

Maybe he got parasites real bad after being stressed by the pleco who knows

If he does pass away which I hope he doesn't try and look him over real good

good luck
 
Most probably yes! Sorry . I guess everyone if they say it or not had such an experience of that kind. Sometimes it happens . You know what happend ?? You thruw the antibiotics in the tank you have to consider they kill beneficial bacteria as well . Rays can cope with bacteria with their own imune system pretty good. If they dont live in a infested environment ,(good water is a must) . If you had really suckers in the tank and the injury is aprox the same sice of the suckers mouth thats no coincidence!! But by your description im not shure of the cause of the initial injury. The drop of waterquality gave it the rest! I guess it could have been really a bactrial infection because if you cant see threw the ray why shoud a injurie from a sucker attack thats most likely from above,show on the downside. This theory works only if the ray is not too small, because then you really can see threw it. In the beginning sucker attacks look like somebody rubbed away a little of the upper texture of the skin these part get kinda dull. Also the behaviour of the ray lets me tihnk of bacterial problem. The best way to give antibiotics in a aquaria is by doing that by food.Its called death curl because rays that do that are soon in rayheaven! If the fish scrubbbed before on the sand this looks like a ray that tryes to tear a big peace of food but there is no food. or it excellerates fast on the sand out of nothing like something pinched it that absolute signs of bacterial problems in this stage you can still help the ray by putting the bacterial pressure down by correct usage of uv and of corse any stress must be avoided! Be careful with feeding in this time get everything not eaten out of the tank. Also does not make sense fodd that is not eaten in 30 minutes it wont be eaten in 3or 4 hours.Always try to achieve best waterquality at any time for your fish this solves a lot of problems.
 
With his test results I highly doubt water quality was an issue

0 ammonia 0 nitrites 10ppm nitrates

Did you even read the other posts?
 
johno27;4316742; said:
With his test results I highly doubt water quality was an issue

0 ammonia 0 nitrites 10ppm nitrates

Did you even read the other posts?
Click to expand...

Ive read the post! Is that readings before or after medication?? Besides that do you know what happens if you have a massive death of benefical bacteria that kannot be testet?? We can test only a feww waterparameters with our tests. There is a lot more happening than ammonium ;Nitrite and Nitrate. Ammonium ist the first step in the cycle of processing . Your water is already bad before your test shows it . When it starts processing the waste you read ammonia.
 
He tested the tank when i posted that he should, which was after the medication

A page long paragraph about proper tank mantinence to remove things that you say we can not test for was not going to help him in any way shape or form
 
johno27;4317966; said:
He tested the tank when i posted that he should, which was after the medication

A page long paragraph about proper tank mantinence to remove things that you say we can not test for was not going to help him in any way shape or form
Click to expand...

This was my answer to your post! I allways noticed change of watrequality using antibiotics. If you read the instructions heavy areation on such medicine is recomended! You know why ?? Death of beneficial bacteria. It takes about 3 days after medication you start to read amonia. Know why. Because the small number of survived bacteria start their work. All the **** thats before the cycling process in the water still harms a stressed fish.Did you consider all the dead biomass thats in the water after using antibiotics. Using medicines should be considered wisely. @ the original poster.
My opinion is that you observed to late that you have a problem. Any weight you put on the ray organism such like medicines ,moving other kind of stress harms the fish more than it is helpful. A curling starts from the back this is the only stage i experienced you can save the fish, by keepin stresslevels low better 0,prestine waterquality, UV to keep bakterial pressure low, and lots of air. Its useful to let a ray cope himself wich it can if all parameters are excelent with a bacterial problem ! Each organism can cope with bacteria they all around and in each organism! Its pretty risky unexperinced persons to dose medication there is not allways the right time to do that.
 
After reading about the medicine he used I would say it is fairly certain the medicine itself killed the ray

It says that it can be harmful if used on stressed or weakened fish and is best used as a topical treatment or dip

Neomycin
Active ingredients: 200 mg, Neomycin Sulfate
Diseases: internal swelling, open sores, body and fin rot, colour and weight loss, wasting away
Contraindications:
This affects the bacterial cell membrane which is responsible for bringing nutrients into the cell and taking waste out of the cell. The antibiotics disrupt this process. It is toxic when overdosed and fatal to already weakened fish.

These antibiotics prevent protein synthesis and effect the cells ability to reproduce. Also a very powerful antibiotic that often is not resisted by various strains of bacteria making it the last but great choice for severe bacterial infections.

Best used as a bath/dip or topical treatment.

Dosage courtesy of Thegab.org:
1/4 of the package to a quart of distilled water placed in a ziplock freezer bag. Place the fish in the mixture for at least 5 minutes. Remove if fish is very distressed and cease continuation. Once the dip is done, put the fish in a separate container for a brief period (preferably 10-15 minutes) to rinse most of the antibiotic as Neomycin can destroy beneficial bacteria.
 
johno27;4321063; said:
After reading about the medicine he used I would say it is fairly certain the medicine itself killed the ray

It says that it can be harmful if used on stressed or weakened fish and is best used as a topical treatment or dip

Neomycin
Active ingredients: 200 mg, Neomycin Sulfate
Diseases: internal swelling, open sores, body and fin rot, colour and weight loss, wasting away
Contraindications:
This affects the bacterial cell membrane which is responsible for bringing nutrients into the cell and taking waste out of the cell. The antibiotics disrupt this process. It is toxic when overdosed and fatal to already weakened fish.


I agree I think that one is not raysafe. A good raysafe antibiotic medication is Nifurpherinol still treated with care. The main source of bacterial problems is stress, it weakens the fishes immune system than pathogene bakteria can spread in the organism of the fish. If compared to us humans if we have a fluh and we dont get warm and dry this flu turns into a plumonia which untreated is deadly. So in the fluh stage the ray can be helped! The ray shows thru its behaviour a bacterial infection, in the plumonia stage before the ray is allready curling no medication can help, because any stress on the fish will kill it. As a post before only good waterquality can turn the cycle backwards.

These antibiotics prevent protein synthesis and effect the cells ability to reproduce. Also a very powerful antibiotic that often is not resisted by various strains of bacteria making it the last but great choice for severe bacterial infections.

Best used as a bath/dip or topical treatment.

Dosage courtesy of Thegab.org:
1/4 of the package to a quart of distilled water placed in a ziplock freezer bag. Place the fish in the mixture for at least 5 minutes. Remove if fish is very distressed and cease continuation. Once the dip is done, put the fish in a separate container for a brief period (preferably 10-15 minutes) to rinse most of the antibiotic as Neomycin can destroy beneficial bacteria.
Click to expand...

Can and wil destroy beneficial bacteria thats why its recommended as a bath! But whats the use then of such a treatment?? You desinfect the fish than put him back to the water thats full of the bacteria you yust try to remove from and out of it??
 
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