Never kept discus, please help.
- Thread starter leather
- Start date
There are no chemicals used what so ever. Trace eliments are within the water that is required to maintain the housed fish, salts, minerals and carbonates are there. The sytem controls how much of them are there monitored by a TDS meter. Welcome to the 22nd centry. Not only have i proven the system here, I have proven the system in a retail store as well. The patent name to this system is the Reduced Maintenance Aquarium Filter System, I have been looking for a shorter name for it so I have been calling it the Water control System. I use no extra water I do not store use a holding tank or do I age water in any way, all that is there is the aquarium its self and the system my biological filter and the air stones. Everything is still within the water Carbonate and bicarbonate just under control without adding chemicals to the water.WyldFya;4320115; said:
I have differant size aquariums my biggest aquarium is the 180 gallon. My fish are very large in size. The discus are from 5 to 10 inches the placos are 20 inches long, silver dollors are the size of a small plate my motoro ray out grew the tank was 21 1/4 inches in diamitor when I shipped him off to a bigger home. I allso have Amazon sword plants that if I stand them up straight they are 4 feet tall.Snowflake311;4320105; said:
@sassyfishwater
no offence but anybody with a background in chemistry/biology will tell you that it is not possible to do what you are suggesting you are trying to get a patent for. A South African company has a system on the market over here (the name escapes me at the moment) where you need to add a sachet of their stuff to the water and have an airstone going at all times. Once you stop adding the stuff the whole thing falls apart. It is also rather expensive in the long run.
You can reduce nitrates to next to 0 but this need to be done in anaerobic climate with a constant supply of carbon generally suplied through the alcohol in a clar spirit such as Vodka. Have a google for 'vodka filter' and that will give you an explanation. Third option are ion exchange units you can run in a bypass off your filter. The resins need to be recharged. But in all these methods something needs to be added if not to the aquarium itself but in a filtration system of sorts
Ok, back to the real world of discus keeping.
A pH of 8 is too high for discus and needs to be lowered. You cannot control this through CO2 injection since you will end up with more than 30 mg/l of CO2. There are several ways to achieve this. Either RO mixed with tapwater to achieve the hardness you are looking for. I'd suggest a carbonat hardness between 7-10 degrees. This will keep your water pretty stable and you will not suffer a pH crash should you use a CO2 injection system. If your hardness is in this range you can adjust your pH (within reason) by a pH controller.
Another option is use RO water and use special buffer salts. Rather expensive.
The cheapest and safest option in the long run since you have no waste water like you would with an RO unit is to use ion exchange resins. I don't know what is available in the US but I would guess Bayer sell theirs on your side of the big pond as well. These need to be recharged once exhausted but it's pretty cheap. All you need is hydrochloric acid and casutic soda. The next steps are the same as with pure RO water.
One final option which is the cheapest of all but depending where you are living might not be suitable is rainwater. It depends if yours is not polluted and if you can collect enough of it. Not a problem in Ireland but it would be in some parts of the US. Run the water through some activated carbon and you are good to go. If the rainwater is polluted it might also have a very low pH. Just think of acid rain and you get the picture. Again you can bring up the hardness by adding tapwater or buffer salts if your rainwater is OK to use.
Keeping discus is not any harder than keeping most tropicals. You need to get decent stock to start off with which is probably the most important thing. Stendeker discus are available in the US as far as I know and they are fine. Insist from whoever you are buying the fish from to feed them, healthy discus are always hungry. Worm the once you have bought them. Flubendazole is great since it does not have any negative impact on your filtration. Buy seni-adult fish. They are the easiest to acclimatize.
Keep on top of your water changes, I change 50% twice a week and that is fine for me. I run it straight from the tap and my fish usually spawn every 10 days or so. The drop in temperature does not harm them if it is not too harsh. I have my own well and no issues with chlorine. If you do you can add a dechlorinator but I never did in my old house where I had ordinary tap water.
Clown loaches are fine with discus. I don't like them but that is down to personal taste. Some discus will eat smaller tetras. I blamed my angels for years but finally managed to catch the discus red handed. Your red line torpedo barb prefers cooler water temps so I would shift them. Some peopel report that plecos suck on to the sides of discus. Mine never have so I cannot confirm this.
relax, it's easier to keep discus than many 'experts' make it out to be
no offence but anybody with a background in chemistry/biology will tell you that it is not possible to do what you are suggesting you are trying to get a patent for. A South African company has a system on the market over here (the name escapes me at the moment) where you need to add a sachet of their stuff to the water and have an airstone going at all times. Once you stop adding the stuff the whole thing falls apart. It is also rather expensive in the long run.
You can reduce nitrates to next to 0 but this need to be done in anaerobic climate with a constant supply of carbon generally suplied through the alcohol in a clar spirit such as Vodka. Have a google for 'vodka filter' and that will give you an explanation. Third option are ion exchange units you can run in a bypass off your filter. The resins need to be recharged. But in all these methods something needs to be added if not to the aquarium itself but in a filtration system of sorts
Ok, back to the real world of discus keeping.
A pH of 8 is too high for discus and needs to be lowered. You cannot control this through CO2 injection since you will end up with more than 30 mg/l of CO2. There are several ways to achieve this. Either RO mixed with tapwater to achieve the hardness you are looking for. I'd suggest a carbonat hardness between 7-10 degrees. This will keep your water pretty stable and you will not suffer a pH crash should you use a CO2 injection system. If your hardness is in this range you can adjust your pH (within reason) by a pH controller.
Another option is use RO water and use special buffer salts. Rather expensive.
The cheapest and safest option in the long run since you have no waste water like you would with an RO unit is to use ion exchange resins. I don't know what is available in the US but I would guess Bayer sell theirs on your side of the big pond as well. These need to be recharged once exhausted but it's pretty cheap. All you need is hydrochloric acid and casutic soda. The next steps are the same as with pure RO water.
One final option which is the cheapest of all but depending where you are living might not be suitable is rainwater. It depends if yours is not polluted and if you can collect enough of it. Not a problem in Ireland but it would be in some parts of the US. Run the water through some activated carbon and you are good to go. If the rainwater is polluted it might also have a very low pH. Just think of acid rain and you get the picture. Again you can bring up the hardness by adding tapwater or buffer salts if your rainwater is OK to use.
Keeping discus is not any harder than keeping most tropicals. You need to get decent stock to start off with which is probably the most important thing. Stendeker discus are available in the US as far as I know and they are fine. Insist from whoever you are buying the fish from to feed them, healthy discus are always hungry. Worm the once you have bought them. Flubendazole is great since it does not have any negative impact on your filtration. Buy seni-adult fish. They are the easiest to acclimatize.
Keep on top of your water changes, I change 50% twice a week and that is fine for me. I run it straight from the tap and my fish usually spawn every 10 days or so. The drop in temperature does not harm them if it is not too harsh. I have my own well and no issues with chlorine. If you do you can add a dechlorinator but I never did in my old house where I had ordinary tap water.
Clown loaches are fine with discus. I don't like them but that is down to personal taste. Some discus will eat smaller tetras. I blamed my angels for years but finally managed to catch the discus red handed. Your red line torpedo barb prefers cooler water temps so I would shift them. Some peopel report that plecos suck on to the sides of discus. Mine never have so I cannot confirm this.
relax, it's easier to keep discus than many 'experts' make it out to be
Apisto, thank you and everybody else. As for bringing my ph down, what do you think about dehumidifier water. I run a huge dehumidifier nonstop for my basement, I have often thought about trickling that water into a sump with an overflow set up. This would give me distilled water. It would have no buffer and start out with a neutral ph. I'm currently producing 10 gallons a day.
First thing is I do have the patent. Second there are no chemicals involved with the system or sachet of any kind. If you should want to check on this My attorney that handled the patent is Robert E Montgomery president of InventSAI Network, LLC. There is nothing added to the water, air stones has nothing to do with the system. I have managed and breed Discus now for 30 years along with many other type fish. This is why it called an invention. I placed a system in a retail store for testing the stores name is Fish Doctors of Ypsilanti MI. The president to Fish Doctors is Tom. www.fishdoctors.com The patent name to this system is the (Reduced Maintenance Aquarium Filter System) And I do have a back ground in Chemistry and Biology.apisto;4325551; said:
Discus do very well in low pH and soft water, pH should not go above 7.3 they will do well. keep your TDS between 20 and 50 ppms give them plenty of room to swim use caution when placing tank mates with them. Discus are very easy to keep and breed. The discus you see in my profile 80% of them were born and raised here as are the angel fish as well.
@sassyfishwater,
As you see I am on the the other side if the Atlantic ocean so I have no way of confirming if your systems works or not, however, I presume this is the same in the US as it is in Ireland, you do get a patent number once a patent is granted. For my own research sake and to prove me wrong, could you please post this and I'll have a look at it. Couldn't find a US patent when I googled 'Reduced Maintenance Aquarium Filter System' plenty of Aquarium filtration systems but couldn't find yours.
@Leather,
theoretically your humidifier water should be fine to use. I'd try it on some rummy noses and see how they do. If they look pale than there is something wrong. Bright red head and you are good t go. Should the worst happen, at least you won't lose an expensive discus.
I have read reports that people are using water from a condenser dryer and the fish seem fine. I cannot confirm this as I have never tried it myself. I would fancy the dehumidifier water over the one from the dryer since no softeners and detergents come into contact with the humidifier
As you see I am on the the other side if the Atlantic ocean so I have no way of confirming if your systems works or not, however, I presume this is the same in the US as it is in Ireland, you do get a patent number once a patent is granted. For my own research sake and to prove me wrong, could you please post this and I'll have a look at it. Couldn't find a US patent when I googled 'Reduced Maintenance Aquarium Filter System' plenty of Aquarium filtration systems but couldn't find yours.
@Leather,
theoretically your humidifier water should be fine to use. I'd try it on some rummy noses and see how they do. If they look pale than there is something wrong. Bright red head and you are good t go. Should the worst happen, at least you won't lose an expensive discus.
I have read reports that people are using water from a condenser dryer and the fish seem fine. I cannot confirm this as I have never tried it myself. I would fancy the dehumidifier water over the one from the dryer since no softeners and detergents come into contact with the humidifier
There have been many hobbyist which include breeders who have raised and keep discus in regular untreated tap water. I myself have bred and raised beautiful discus using this method some years ago. RO water and low PH is recommended by most, but not used by all. Also apisto makes some very good points in his posts......
thanks bodydub (where's the blushing smilie here?)BODYDUB;4326658; said:
I just checked on Stendker's site and they keep their fish at pH 7 but mention that a pH of 8 would still be fine with their fish. These are European bred fish over many generations. A pH around the 6 mark is more appropriate for wild caught fish. Heckels occur in blackwater with a pH somewhere around 4.5 which is impractical in fishkeeping terms since all filter bacteria are dead at this low pH. I keep mine at a pH around 6 because that is what my tapwater settles to after a day in the tank.
