New 600g Setup

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
That little box is quite the deal. I've never seen anything like it before. It looks a little bit like the guy that owned the tank prior may have been concerned about cutting holes in the tank and installing bulkheads so instead built that box so he wouldn't have to make a permanent choice that he might be disappointed in later. Not sure. Interesting concept and definitely an uncommon solution.
 
Trouser Cough Trouser Cough - Ya the pendant lights can adjust up to 44" up and down so I figure that and different bulbs I can play around with it. Realistically each one has to light 4x4 "ROUGHLY, ofc. So we'll see how it goes. So that stool is nice and all but it won't be used for the 600, lol. The 600 is much too tall to use the stool. The couches in the living room are facing the tv totally opposite of the fish room/area. So sitting down and looking isn't something I ever planned at all. This tank is more of a standing straight on view, so I'm not too worried about that factor you mentioned, but again, we shall see right? So here's one of my main thoughts though when we talk about 60w bulbs not being enough. The guy I bought the tank from has a fish store and does this stuff and was mentioning a few different things. He did seem to think less w than this would be more than enough to light this and seemed to know his stuff for the most part. BUT, once I have those lights up and wired I have them wired, and I bought a wall switch that is a smart switch so I can control it from an app, set it on a schedule etc. IF for some reason these really didn't provide enough light to my liking, I could use the existing wiring to use like a bay light with a dome (since w/o a dome I feel like it would 100% light my entire room)

So I actually keep my tanks at 85. So I'd like them to be in the same temp they're used to. These 500w inline heaters apparently aren't too expensive (im still standing by for the guy to give me the actual model/item) so for all intensive purposes, is there really an issue with me going a bit overkill on the heaters and doing the 4? Like I get it may not be necessary, but does it hurt?

Okay, I see the confusion!!! That's not my tank, hehe. That's Y yellowfinfmb showing his 670!
 
Trouser Cough Trouser Cough - Ya, I thought the design was extremely unique too! I don't think he was concerned with drilling. I think he just came up with the design and thought it'd be efficient and simple so he tried it. They guy built the entire tank himself in a shop. He makes them himself. That's why I say I seriously doubt he was concerned with drilling. :P He said he designed it to be extremely user friendly as far as setup.
 
Interesting. Sorry I botched the yellowfin thing. Not sure how I missed that and yeah, your tank builder has some talent.

There's no problem w/ using too much heat or too many heaters as long as everything's working right they simply turn off sooner. The only issue you want to avoid where heaters are concerned is that you can introduce a problem if you buy one giant heater. In that case if it ever failed in the on position it could cook your fish and I've had that happen many years ago. w/ 3 or 4 smaller heaters that's not likely. If there were something to keep in mind it may be that 4 ea, 500W heaters that all came on at the same time would require a full circuit breaker's output so if something else was on the same circuit when all the heaters came on the breaker would trip and you may not have any notice that your heaters were not working.

One other comment. You mention the possibility of going to a "bay light with a dome". It sounds like you may be thinking about a high bay or a low bay fixture like you might see in a warehouse or a grow operation. They work, they make noise, and they get hotter than a billy goat. That's not the down side though. They also put out a lot of UV and over time UV does prematurely age acrylic. For light w/out heat your best bet will be an LED solution and you can get LED lamps to put in those pendant reflectors that will put out a ton of light w/ at or near zero UV. Something again like what you can find at the local hardware store and an example would be something like this:


It might hang down too far beneath the shroud, etc. but you get the idea.
 
The bonus of standard LED lighting for a tank you don't intend to grow plants in is that w/ at or near zero UV output you're also not feeding algae so if you skip a wc one weekend you still get the nitrate spike but you don't get the algae bloom.
 
Trouser Cough Trouser Cough - Ya, so honestly I think I'm gonna still see what specific model/type heater he suggested and probably go with the 4x. It even seems convenient for a fail safe if one were to randomly fail. Do the heaters hit the electric that hard? I mean I have 2 300w heaters in my 240g and never thought twice about what else was on their breaker.

I'm feeling pretty confident the pendant style lights are gonna be solid with a good solid high watt LED bulb. Should I just simply google and buy high watt led bulb, or do you have any specific bulb suggestions? The lights arrived today and they're bigger than I expected, which is kinda good imo. Ya, I need to figure out all the f'ing algae in my other tanks... I mean I clean them weekly so its not like ghastly, but it's annoying af and comes back fast. Maybe we bring that to another lighting discussion. Those lights are totally over my head...
 
Yep. The heaters hit hard. Short version is this:

A typical single pole 20 amp (20/1) circuit breaker like you'd find in most home panels is capable of delivering 20 amps at 120 volts.

(NOTE: Different parts of the country use different sizes of breakers for residential applications. Most are 20 amp but some are 15 amp. You'll want to check to see what's in your electrical panel. It's normally written on the end of each breaker's switch handle. If that doesn't make sense be sure you don't take the cover off... just open the door).

In a residential circuit the available wattage from that same breaker would be amps x volts which in this case is 2400W... theoretically. There will probably be a little bit of voltage drop and a little bit of resistance and some other voodoo in the circuit which usually makes it a good rule of thumb to figure that you have roughly 2000 watts that you can reasonably work with on each 20/1 breaker.

The way an inline aquarium heater typically works is that it is on or it is off. It can't sense that your water is just a degree or two shy of the 84*f you aimed for so it can just come on a little bit. Instead, as soon as the thermostat senses that the temp is low it comes on full throttle and shuts off when the appropriate temp is reached.

That means that there are a couple things to keep in mind w/ a big tank like yours. In my mind those are:

- If you have 4 ea, 500W heaters on the same circuit and they all come on at once... that breaker could trip and you may not know it for a day or two. It may not be a big deal as you keep your house w/in the 'green zone' of most tropical fish thermometers.

- If you have the above come on as described and there's something else on that same circuit the problem gets worse.

There's also something called the Inverse Time Element that basically means that a 20/1 could see 25 amps of draw for a few minutes and might not trip but if it saw say, 50 amps of draw it would trip quickly... so there's a little bit of wiggle room in there and it does help minimize nuisance tripping but it's not something you should normally bank on working in your favor. If anything you can suspect that it may not always trip at the same time under the same overload conditions.

The other thing that you want to at least think about for a moment is heat storage mass. You have stepped up to a very large tank and when you do that a question comes up about heat and how you might want to think of it. For example, let's say you currently heat your house w/ a natural gas boiler and it's super efficient and it keeps your house at 73*f non-stop cost effectively. You're about to be heating your fish room with electric heaters as that big tank will be far hotter than you keep the rest of the house. It's not a huge deal but it's worth thinking about for a moment. If for example the only thermostat for that house is in the same room the big tank is in and the rest of the house seems to be cooler than you like... it's because the heat from the tank is high enough that it never tells that t-stat to send heat.

I had smaller tanks for decades. Never anything bigger than roughly 220 gallons. When I jumped up to an 800 though a few things changed that I never had to think about before. None of them bad but there was a thicker layer of complexity that I hadn't given much thought.

As far as LED lamps go I would suggest an outdoor rated lamp. They're usually called PAR lamps and the choice between a spot light pattern or a flood light pattern will be part of that voodoo you want to sort by deciding how high above the tank you want the fixtures, etc. I also wouldn't spend an extra nickel on any LED lamp that advertised that it lasted longer than the others. The truth is that you're going to want to do something different in a couple years and spending extra for a lamp that brags about being good for 25 years is not going to have been worth it. It's also true that LED lighting standards are a little different than you or I might expect such that in ten years that same screw-in lamp may only be putting out half the light it did when you bought it but the LED mfg would tell you that it's still fine. A lot of the LED mfg's are selling efficacy specs that mean something different to you than it means to them. Buy a cheap outdoor rated LED lamp of the highest reasonable wattage equivalent (something that says it puts out the light equivalent to a 120W or 150W incandescent should be pretty darn bright). Bonus if they're dimmable as you may find you want to mess w/ light output as well and some aren't dimmable.

Then you may notice a cave effect where it's light within the pattern but not uniformly so within the tank. You see that clearly in the DIY guy's vid. Next thing you know you'll be fooling w/ height adjustments and similar but you'll nail it. Just takes a little fiddling.
 
Another thing. The shrouds on the pendant mount fixtures are shaped that way because they are intended to reflect and focus the light from a maximum 60W incandescent bulb in the old school light bulb shape. The LED lamps you'll screw into those sockets won't actually reflect and focus any light from the shroud as the LED lamp will have a set photometry (or light pattern) it puts out irrespective of the reflector on the fixture you install it in. You could throw the shroud (or reflector) of that fixture away and the bulb would still splash the exact same intensity of light in the exact same pattern.
 
Trouser Cough Trouser Cough - Hey. Happy Easter! I just wanted to let you know I did see this but I'll be away from the home doing the family Easter thing today, so I'll probably have the time later to sit down, reread, and respond to this. I feel like your with your vast light knowledge I wanna pick your brain about my other current lights. They are "high end" ish lights with specific spectrum settings and I legit have no idea which spectrums need to be set where, and I have had algae issues on some tanks with them. Also I am very familiar with my breaker box and breakers, since I had to have them ALL replaced when I bought my home. The person putting the lights in for me is the same person that I commissioned for that project.
 
I feel like your with your vast light knowledge I wanna pick your brain about my other current lights. They are "high end" ish lights with specific spectrum settings and I legit have no idea which spectrums need to be set where, and I have had algae issues on some tanks with them.

Glad to help where I can. I start to run out of gas once we get beyond electrical system questions but five bucks says there's enough expertise on this board that pretty much any question can be dialed in quick. I have a working understanding of lighting systems, kelvin temps, glare vs intensity, fc and the like but not specific to plants and I highly suspect that aquarium light mfg's may blend science and marketing perspectives particularly when talking about spectrum and color.

Someone on this board will know a lot more than I do about that stuff though.
 
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