New acquisitions - H. carpintis "Vontehillo"

[sickcichs]

Thanks again James. The smallest can fit through the divider and is over with the midas right now and so far he doesn't care. I think a lot of the damage was from crashing into the cooler and tank. They were hitting the sides hard and jumping lots when I was moving and catching them. Since they've been in the tank I've seen minimal aggression.



I have to say that my female carpintis "Escondido" showed a lot more blue at this age than this "variety". Can't go wrong with H. carpintis though.

Here's my old female Escondido at about the same size. My photography has improved just a bit since then...

Thanks



Yes, they're in the same tank, divided off from my stupid midas who will most likely be leaving soon.



Thanks, I still think the "Escondido" race might take the cake. Have to grow these guys out more to be sure.



I'm shooting for a breeding pair, then I'll have to unload the rest. I'm fairly certain the largest is male and the two second largest are female.



I got them from Cavamart. He's got all sorts of nice small cichlids right now that he's selling. I know you're a SA guy but if I had more tank space I'd be all over them.

Cryptoheros Chetumalensis .5" $3.50
Cryptoheros Chetumalensis 1.5" $4.50
Cryptoheros Sajica .5" $3.50
Cryptoheros Sajica 1.5" $4.50
Cryptoheros HRP .75" $3.50
Cryptoheros Cutteri Rio Jutiapa 1" $4.50
Cryptoheros Cutteri Rio Mongu 1.5" $5
Cryptoheros Septemfasciatus 3.5" $8
Archocentrus Centrarchus 2" $4.75
Amphilophus Lyonsi 2.5-3.5" $7.00
Herichthys Carpintis Vontehillo 2-3" $6
Parachromis La Ceiba Yellowheads 1.5-2.5" $3.50

What is the difference between the Vontehillo and the Escondido?Pardon my ignorance.

 

[dogofwar]

"What is the difference between the Vontehillo and the Escondido?Pardon my ignorance."

Not a bad question at all!

That two locations have different names doesn't mean that fish from places with different names (in the same watershed) are different variants.

"Vontehillo" and "Escondido" are both on the outskirts of Veracruz, MX in the Rio Panuco drainage. Only Don Conkel, who made up the name, knows exactly where "Vontehillo" is...and he's not telling.

Whether there are consistent morphological differences between the general populations of carpinte from these two places is yet to be determined. People who are interested - or motivated - to find differences will find them. I have my doubts.

One could just as easily walk down the river 50 yards, make up a new name, collect the most distinctive individuals from the population, breed them in a pond...and (EXCLUSIVELY!) sell them as something "new"...

Matt

 

[Modest_Man]

"What is the difference between the Vontehillo and the Escondido?Pardon my ignorance."

Not a bad question at all!

That two locations have different names doesn't mean that fish from places with different names (in the same watershed) are different variants.

"Vontehillo" and "Escondido" are both on the outskirts of Veracruz, MX in the Rio Panuco drainage. Only Don Conkel, who made up the name, knows exactly where "Vontehillo" is...and he's not telling.

Whether there are consistent morphological differences between the general populations of carpinte from these two places is yet to be determined. People who are interested - or motivated - to find differences will find them. I have my doubts.

One could just as easily walk down the river 50 yards, make up a new name, collect the most distinctive individuals from the population, breed them in a pond...and (EXCLUSIVELY!) sell them as something "new"...

Matt

All very true. They're both H. carpintis collected from a different location (albeit close location). I'd rather include a collection point than not for any fish. Regardless if it's "new" or not.

These do have different markings than my "Escondido", but different markings don't mean much when distinguishing species. I'll leave the postulating up to the ichthyologists.

 

[dogofwar]

I agree with maintaining a collection point with fish, if available. That's the only way to maintain provenance.

The definition of "different location" is what's at issue (not that "Vontehillo", which is a made up location and hasn't been made available for verification is technically a location).

Although it's absurd, anyone looking to introduce (and sell) "new" fish to the hobby could walk down the bank of a river (or around a lake or pond) and name each few steps a new location. There was a red bush by that cast, so this new location is called, "Arbusto rojo"...There's a guy named Jose selling tamales by this one, so I call it "Tienda de Jose"...and a few more steps later...a have a whole list of "exclusive, new" fish to sell (with interesting names, no less!)...

The morphological differences among the limited number of individuals collected at each location would be amplified through captive breeding...such that there could be relatively obvious differences in color, size, shape, etc (among fish of the same species, watershed, location, etc.).

All of the Rio Panuco carpinte are gorgeous fish, which is what really matters!

Matt

 

[Modest_Man]

Collectors can call them new fish, but that doesn't make people buy them. Hell, any person who tries to sell anything can call it whatever they want.

Consumers just need to not jump on the "new thing" bandwagon and make educated purchases.

 

[freebyrd]

carpintis is my favorite fish i LOVE them yours are magnificent creatures

 

[balton777]

"What is the difference between the Vontehillo and the Escondido?Pardon my ignorance."

Not a bad question at all!

That two locations have different names doesn't mean that fish from places with different names (in the same watershed) are different variants.

"Vontehillo" and "Escondido" are both on the outskirts of Veracruz, MX in the Rio Panuco drainage. Only Don Conkel, who made up the name, knows exactly where "Vontehillo" is...and he's not telling.

Whether there are consistent morphological differences between the general populations of carpinte from these two places is yet to be determined. People who are interested - or motivated - to find differences will find them. I have my doubts.

One could just as easily walk down the river 50 yards, make up a new name, collect the most distinctive individuals from the population, breed them in a pond...and (EXCLUSIVELY!) sell them as something "new"...

Matt

Careful dog, remember how touchy this subject is. Sounds like we haven't figured out if Vontehillo is even a pond or any other real location though. They do look different though.

 

[buddha1200]

regardless of location,i have not seen a better looking carpintis(i dont even like carpintis)but i have to give credit were credit is due these fish at large sizes are stunning,might make me a carpintis fan yet.

 

[Modest_Man]

Growing like weeds...

Two of the smallest now close to 3"

Second largest at 4-4.5" And yes, that is what the F1 midas does during daylight photo shoots.

And the big guy. Easily 10X the mass of his smaller siblings.
This one shows off how much larger he is than his siblings.

 

[Modest_Man]

From this-

To this-

In 33 days.