New FRT owners group International
- Thread starter rottbo
- Start date
Oddball;883882; said:
mine dont even try to get live fish I have a ton of live bearers in with themand a school of neon rosy barbs that I count on a regular basis to make sure none are missing and havent lost any the few months that they have been in there
Fly River Turtles For Sale
Beware that before purchasing a Fly River Turtle for sale, keep in mind that they are illegal to export from their habitat. I was fortunate enough to receive a visit and an email from Scott Thomson with www.carettochelys.com . He provided me this information about Pig-Nosed Turtles for sale:
"The species has now been bred in captivity on three occasions as yet none of these animals have ever been sold. Hence there are no licenced breeders of Fly River Turtles or Pig Nose Turtles for sale and there never has been.
All Fly River Turtles on the market for sale have been smuggled out of Indonesia by locals stealing eggs from beaches. These are incubated and the hatchlings are then exported. This was the basis for the recent listing of the species on CITES II. (CITES=Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species)
Also you may want to note that as the species is CITES II. Now you cannot import them into the US anymore. The three countries in which they are found have had bans on their export for 30 years and in any case all three countries are signatories to CITES. They cannot allow their export anymore without CITES permits. Although if there ever were a licenced breeder that will sell Fly River Turtles, you could import them into the US for sale (in theory), as this has never occurred it is a moot point." - Cheers, Scott
Scott Thomson
Applied Ecology Institute
University of Canberra
www.carettochelys.com
Beware that before purchasing a Fly River Turtle for sale, keep in mind that they are illegal to export from their habitat. I was fortunate enough to receive a visit and an email from Scott Thomson with www.carettochelys.com . He provided me this information about Pig-Nosed Turtles for sale:
"The species has now been bred in captivity on three occasions as yet none of these animals have ever been sold. Hence there are no licenced breeders of Fly River Turtles or Pig Nose Turtles for sale and there never has been.
All Fly River Turtles on the market for sale have been smuggled out of Indonesia by locals stealing eggs from beaches. These are incubated and the hatchlings are then exported. This was the basis for the recent listing of the species on CITES II. (CITES=Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species)
Also you may want to note that as the species is CITES II. Now you cannot import them into the US anymore. The three countries in which they are found have had bans on their export for 30 years and in any case all three countries are signatories to CITES. They cannot allow their export anymore without CITES permits. Although if there ever were a licenced breeder that will sell Fly River Turtles, you could import them into the US for sale (in theory), as this has never occurred it is a moot point." - Cheers, Scott
Scott Thomson
Applied Ecology Institute
University of Canberra
www.carettochelys.com
Might want to check your info and actually read the CITES documents. These turtles haven't been banned from export for 30 years. The bans from Papua New Guinea and Australia both occurred in the past few years. Indonesia still allows the export of captive-hatched turtles (the eggs are not stolen since their gov't allows the collection of eggs from wild nests for the food markets). And, CITES does not have a permit process. They're simply a listing body. The governments of the species' countries of origin are the issuing agencies for export permits.
No paper work = not legal. Enough said.
I also foun this while researching the subject on another fishboard:
I can't vouch for the veracity of anyone else's comments in that thread, but I can vouch for mine.
The information in the cited thread was based on a phone call I had with Ms. Janine Van Norman of the USFWS' Enforcement Branch in VA. She informed me that USFWS considers any FRT in the U.S. to be smuggled in violation of the Lacey Act. The basis for this is not the recent CITES II listing, but the Lacey Act's prohibition on importation, sales, etc., of wildlife in violation of foreign laws. She cited long-standing export prohibitions in Australia, PNG, and Indonesia as the basis for invoking this aspect of the Lacey Act. She also noted that there are no legal FRTs, presumably based on the fact that there are only a handful of legal Indonesian FRTs each year and the other countries outright prohibit exports. Nothing was mentioned about USFWS knocking on doors and confiscating turtles, merely USFWS concern over importation and interstate sales on online forums.
IMO, if you're sellling FRTs with proper CITES and Indonesian documentation, you have nothing to worry about. However, be noted that, as a practical matter, USFWS considers such "legal" FRT imports as being so unlikely that they've espoused the absolute proclamation, at least to me, that any FRT in the U.S. was smuggled illegally.
I can't vouch for the veracity of anyone else's comments in that thread, but I can vouch for mine.
The information in the cited thread was based on a phone call I had with Ms. Janine Van Norman of the USFWS' Enforcement Branch in VA. She informed me that USFWS considers any FRT in the U.S. to be smuggled in violation of the Lacey Act. The basis for this is not the recent CITES II listing, but the Lacey Act's prohibition on importation, sales, etc., of wildlife in violation of foreign laws. She cited long-standing export prohibitions in Australia, PNG, and Indonesia as the basis for invoking this aspect of the Lacey Act. She also noted that there are no legal FRTs, presumably based on the fact that there are only a handful of legal Indonesian FRTs each year and the other countries outright prohibit exports. Nothing was mentioned about USFWS knocking on doors and confiscating turtles, merely USFWS concern over importation and interstate sales on online forums.
IMO, if you're sellling FRTs with proper CITES and Indonesian documentation, you have nothing to worry about. However, be noted that, as a practical matter, USFWS considers such "legal" FRT imports as being so unlikely that they've espoused the absolute proclamation, at least to me, that any FRT in the U.S. was smuggled illegally.
