Agreed. Copper works great but is not worth the trouble when malachite green and/or salt would do the trick
New Sick 25" RTC
- Thread starter thefredpit
- Start date
Agreed. Copper works great but is not worth the trouble when malachite green and/or salt would do the trick
I’d start, huge water change.
Then dose the tank with esha exit.
I’ve always found this the safest thing to use around cats.
salt, 3 grams per litre over the water volume. Half in one day. The other half in the following day. Don’t forget to fully dissolve it in water first. Then leave. Water change after on week of treatment and salt in the water. I’ve recently had the same issue and this saved them.
don’t go crazy with chemicals. 90% of the time. This is what people do in a panic and end up killing there fish.
Good luck.
Then dose the tank with esha exit.
I’ve always found this the safest thing to use around cats.
salt, 3 grams per litre over the water volume. Half in one day. The other half in the following day. Don’t forget to fully dissolve it in water first. Then leave. Water change after on week of treatment and salt in the water. I’ve recently had the same issue and this saved them.
don’t go crazy with chemicals. 90% of the time. This is what people do in a panic and end up killing there fish.
Good luck.
Poor fishy....
This looks like ammonia burn/damage. Unless the fish was like this before you picked up? Wouldn't treat for Velvet or ich.
Salt is a good idea. No feeding.
This looks like ammonia burn/damage. Unless the fish was like this before you picked up? Wouldn't treat for Velvet or ich.
Salt is a good idea. No feeding.
Tell us more, if you will. I am not sure of my tentative diagnosis but I am not sure of yours either. It may look like an ammonia reaction but usually the ammonia reaction involves redness and an increase in the slime to the point of fish looking milky, eyes cloudy. If you are saying the "white crumbs", "protrusions", "goose bumps" are from ammonia - I wanna know more, because, again, I didn't know. Looks like other peers who chimed in so far didn't know either... (?)
I tend to stay away from online fish diagnosis. Photos can be misleading and can't observe tank conditions, fish behaviour or skin scrapings.
But yes, ammonia poisoning is literally tissue burn damage. Often creates Epistylis opportunistically on dead cells. The fish has lost a lot of energy and vitality. It needs time to heal. Gill damage may be severe but unseen.
Keep in mind that all medications are poisons. Dosage adjustments for weak fish need consideration and the salt is sufficient.
Sufficient time has elapsed for the fish to be showing improvement (if ammonia) or decline if otherwise.
But yes, ammonia poisoning is literally tissue burn damage. Often creates Epistylis opportunistically on dead cells. The fish has lost a lot of energy and vitality. It needs time to heal. Gill damage may be severe but unseen.
Keep in mind that all medications are poisons. Dosage adjustments for weak fish need consideration and the salt is sufficient.
Sufficient time has elapsed for the fish to be showing improvement (if ammonia) or decline if otherwise.
Thank you for this much.
From this: https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/ The article has great comparisons, tables, and photos to tell epistyles from ich. I highly recommend reading it.
"Epistylis is a disease commonly confused with ich. It can look almost identical to ich. It is typically fuzzy and translucent while ich is clearly defined and very white. Epistylis stick out from the fish while ich only slightly protrudes from the fish. Epistylis is commnly found with a bacterial infection. I recommend treating it with both a formalin/malachite green ich medication like Ich-X AND an antibiotic like Kanaplex or Maracyn 2 in the food and ONLY in the food... What follows is a very lengthy and boring paper on epistylis. Read on only if you are a real aquarium nerd like the author.
Epistylis is a very common opportunistic organism found in small quantities in most aquariums and on many fish (Diana Walstad researched it and found it was found on most fish by pathologists). It is a single celled ciliated protozoan closely related to paramecium and tetrahymena. A single epistylis is too small to be seen by the naked eye but epistylis grows in branching, stalked colonies which can become relatively large, up to three times the diameter of an ich spot.
Epistylis is an opportunistic organism which feeds on bacteria in the water column and generally, but not always, simply uses the fish as something to hold onto. Sometimes, if an aquarium is heavily overfed, the bacteria in the water column becomes so numerous that it feeds epistylis on the glass of the tank. Little white dots of epistylis colonies will appear in patches on the aquarium glass..."
From this: https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/ The article has great comparisons, tables, and photos to tell epistyles from ich. I highly recommend reading it.
"Epistylis is a disease commonly confused with ich. It can look almost identical to ich. It is typically fuzzy and translucent while ich is clearly defined and very white. Epistylis stick out from the fish while ich only slightly protrudes from the fish. Epistylis is commnly found with a bacterial infection. I recommend treating it with both a formalin/malachite green ich medication like Ich-X AND an antibiotic like Kanaplex or Maracyn 2 in the food and ONLY in the food... What follows is a very lengthy and boring paper on epistylis. Read on only if you are a real aquarium nerd like the author.
Epistylis is a very common opportunistic organism found in small quantities in most aquariums and on many fish (Diana Walstad researched it and found it was found on most fish by pathologists). It is a single celled ciliated protozoan closely related to paramecium and tetrahymena. A single epistylis is too small to be seen by the naked eye but epistylis grows in branching, stalked colonies which can become relatively large, up to three times the diameter of an ich spot.
Epistylis is an opportunistic organism which feeds on bacteria in the water column and generally, but not always, simply uses the fish as something to hold onto. Sometimes, if an aquarium is heavily overfed, the bacteria in the water column becomes so numerous that it feeds epistylis on the glass of the tank. Little white dots of epistylis colonies will appear in patches on the aquarium glass..."
Epistylis is a generic loose name for assorted bacterial and fungal infections. Most relatively harmless. Some very lethal. Usually bacteria needs to be cultured (quite easy) to determine if gramm positive or gramm negative anti biotics are best. Because it's such a diverse collection, it's dangerous to generalise and that website has a lot of misleading claims/information but I'm sure it's well intentioned.
If it were ich or Velvet, it is far advanced. There wasn't the incubation time necessary to get to that stage. And there are clear differences to ich which I appreciate may not be obvious to less experienced fish keepers.
Just my opinion. I'm frequently wrong.
If it were ich or Velvet, it is far advanced. There wasn't the incubation time necessary to get to that stage. And there are clear differences to ich which I appreciate may not be obvious to less experienced fish keepers.
Just my opinion. I'm frequently wrong.
I always thought epistylis was the benign-by-default fungus that lives everywhere, in every tank and would feed opportunistically on necrotizing tissue on fish if it happens to be. I saw large, dense, semi-clear bristles of fungus grow on dead skin of many of our injured fish. The skin would fall off and new skin would start growing soon. Epistylis is said to be known to attack healthy tissues too but I've never come along such a case IME. It always consumed the dead tissue. It is also the "fungus" that grows on uneaten feed or a dead fish if left in the tank. I think. Because it looks the same.
I didn't know epistylis is so broad a word / definition. Thank you.
Also, I didn't quite know that ammonia burn can kill surface skin cells and that epistylis would seize on this and start consuming the dead skin cells resulting in the confusing ich / velvet - eresque look. Thank you.
Never have done any bacterial culturing to determine which antibiotic to use. Nor do I use a microscope, like you do.
You are so far ahead of my primitive knowledge and experience.
I don't know how you have determined the timing of what's going on with this sick RTC, how much time past between what, but I trust you have.
well I guess it is a good thing that I got sick about the same time that the RTC did because I only got as far as raising the temp, adding salt, and keeping the lights off. While he is not 100% yet he is doing significantly better
I have dealt with ich and velvet in the past and the spots were smaller than I am used to with ich but didn't have the yellow tint I have seen with velvet so I suspect it was actually ich. I plan on keeping him as is and monitor the situation
I have dealt with ich and velvet in the past and the spots were smaller than I am used to with ich but didn't have the yellow tint I have seen with velvet so I suspect it was actually ich. I plan on keeping him as is and monitor the situation
