New Tank Desires

[kyle.mckay]

Currently i am looking to buy a 75 half circle tank and i am looking for a couple perfect fish for it. After reading an article in a magazine about homebound pikes my interest in them peaked and i started doing a little research. With the 75g tank not being too big, i am curious if it would support a pair of non-dwarf pike ( more specifically Cincta / Johanna / Sedentaria / Cobra / Tapajos Red )?

I want to pair them in the tank, for their comfort and happiness, however if 75g wont be enough room for two, i obviously need to rethink it. Additionally, what is recommended for cleaner fish ( pleco / catfish ) to be compatible with large pike? And would i be able to place any other type of fish in the 75g tank with the pike and not overcrowd the tank?

Further, the 40g that i currently have is a live plant community tank with a substrate setup. How well would pike do in a live plant tank, or is Bog Wood / Rock / Over hanging aquascaping preferrable for them?

Thanks for any info you can provide that might make the decision easier as to whether pike are the right choice for me. If i do this, i want to do it right, and i appreciate any help that can be offered.

BTW, not letting peeps view pics till they make 5 posts is....not right

 

[kyle.mckay]

One other question. How well would a tank do with a combination of an Arowana and Pike?

 

[kyle.mckay]

After doing alot more reading i found the answer to the tankmate questions that i asked. But with more reading came more questions.

Ive decided to stick with just the pair of pike, for their health / happiness and to ensure there isnt too much of a bio-load on the tank. From all that ive read, two ( even full adults ) would be fine in a 75g. I also found the info i was lookin for for the pleco. However with that came tons of info / questions about the different types(numbers) of pleco variants that i am going to research before i get one.

I am also going to try to pair the fish but i am not sure how to tell they are female / male, and can that distinction be made when they are juvi fish? My lfs told me they can get quite a few Cren's through their supplier, so i am stoked about that. I would like to be able to tell if theyve gotten the right ones tho. ( sex / species etc )

Im still curious tho, through personnal experiences, whether a live plant setup is better then fake foliage for the fish?

 

[Taz2478]

Never really seen full grown in planted tanks but have seen juvies in them.

If you not looking for anything fancy Id say a Rhino Pleco would be cool as mine gets niped but recovers pretty fast.

Unlike most other fish where you can see the fins point or not, Pikes arent really sexable til about 7+" (except for the dwarfs of course) when they either do a color change (Cobra, Johanna) or lighter/darker shadeing like a cincta. Also you have spot or no spot on the dorsal on some like a scotti.

If the supplier is trust worthy then they most likely can get you a bigger size meaning more def pr can be made. Well even if they not buddy buddy you'll have a male and female.

 

[kyle.mckay]

Never really seen full grown in planted tanks but have seen juvies in them.

If you not looking for anything fancy Id say a Rhino Pleco would be cool as mine gets niped but recovers pretty fast.

Unlike most other fish where you can see the fins point or not, Pikes arent really sexable til about 7+" (except for the dwarfs of course) when they either do a color change (Cobra, Johanna) or lighter/darker shadeing like a cincta. Also you have spot or no spot on the dorsal on some like a scotti.

If the supplier is trust worthy then they most likely can get you a bigger size meaning more def pr can be made. Well even if they not buddy buddy you'll have a male and female.

Thanks for the response Taz.

From what ive heard about them "re-arranging" their tanks, i think ill stick with fake foliage, although i can only imagine how gorgeous ( and difficult ) it would be to set a couple gorgeous pike into a natural plant setting...maybe someday after i get a lil more pike experience i will attempt it.

If the fish are not sexable until 7" or so, what would be my best option to ensure that i recieve a pair? I wouldnt mind an additional pike, but i would like to avoid having to buy 6-8 juvi's just to ensure that i do manage a pair. From the sounds of it, that may be the only way tho?

As for the supplier being trustworthy, its really hard to be sure when dealing with imported fish such as these. I think that regardless who it was, i would be a tad skeptical until i received the fish and saw they were in good health. I would attribute it more to first time jitters then anything tho. There are two lfs that i have contacted to look into obtaining some of the fish that i would like. One ive dealt with very frequently over the past 2 years with my live plant community tank, however they have very limited experience with pike cichlids.

The other dealer that i went to today ( about 30 - 45 minutes away ) seems to have a much broader knowledge about cichlids, including pikes, and has a much larger pool of resources it seems to obtain any desired fish. I have never dealt with him tho, and the appearance of all of the tanks in the shop ( 150 of them ) seemed sub-par which would leave doubt with most serious fish enthusiast.

Is there anyone out there who lives in the Northwest region of the US ( the closer to seattle the better ) and knows of any reputable dealers, or who has some fish themselves that they are interested in selling? I am definetely interested.

 

[Peanut_Power]

Geez..those are some long posts...haha...aight. Lets get some things straight here. Pike cichlids (Crenicichla) are highly conspecific as adults...ie..they don't like other pikes. You either have to have a pair or a really large tank. Sometimes you can get away with keepin different species adults together, but there is always the exception. 75gal ISN'T gonna be large enough for a pair of Lugubris pikes. Sorry, just isn't gonna cut it. They might fit, be a bit cramped, but it would work technically. But pikes aren't like most cichlids. They really don't like other pikes..haha. Even if you have a pair, its not uncommon for a male to totally hound and sometimes even kill a female...or the female kills the male. In a tank of 75gal...that just not enough room for them to get away from each other. I seriously recommend nothing smaller than a 100gal. if you are gonna do a pair of Lugubris group pikes. If you are gonna try Saxatilis group pikes, then you probably can get away with then in the 75gal. You seriously have to watch the aggression though. Make sure that there are hiding spots where only the female can get to, as most of the time its the male attacks and gets aggressive. If she can't get away from the male, things aren't lookin too good. Generally...get like a PVC pipe or pot or something with a hole only large enough for her to fit through.

About the planted tank. I would totally do it. Pikes aren't diggers per say as other SA/CA cichlids. They are actually one of the cichlids that goes well in a planted tank. Driftwood, live plants, a few stones, totally awesome set up for pikes. I'm workin on gettin better lights and then I am gonna do all my tankz planted. Trust me, the pikes would love it. They are curious, super curious though, so they will investigate the plants. The only way they would really uproot them would be if there was some food in the roots or something..haha...they are GREEDY when it comes to food. Gotta love those elastic stomachs!!

"If the fish are not sexable until 7" or so, what would be my best option to ensure that i recieve a pair? I wouldnt mind an additional pike, but i would like to avoid having to buy 6-8 juvi's just to ensure that i do manage a pair. From the sounds of it, that may be the only way tho?" Saxatilis group pikes are sexable at around 5 to 6"...female will have a black spot in the dorsal fin, and will have cherry red to pink abdomens. Lugubris group pikes are a bit harder to sex. Most species go through two color changes, so most of the time the juvs. you get aren't gonna look like the adults. Once they hit subadult, between 7 to 9", they start to go through one of their color changes, and start gettin their adult coloration. Its still kinda difficult to sex them at this size, if you want completely accurate you either have to vent them or wait till they are adults. Pikes don't like having their mates chosen for them. They like to pick their own partners. Its much easier to get a group of pikes that are juv. and grow them up together. As they mature, they will pair up naturally and have stronger pair bonds. Then you just get rid of the remaining pikes.

I used to live in Washington, in Walla Walla actually. Wasn't too many good dealers around that could really get in pikes. Mostly was johanna, sveni, venz., and xingu I. Got in dwarfs one time, that was kewl. Anywho, your best bet would be to check out www.tangledupincichlids.com aka Jeff Rapps. He has a great list of Crenicichla available....with decent prices. Cichlid Exchange in Portland is pretty good, and XoticAquatics...Miles...in Spokane is also pretty good..although he mostly gets in johanna and cincta. He is gettin in some anthurus that would look AWESOME in your 75gal... If you go down to the Tricities (Kennewick, Pasco, Richland) there are two pet stores in Kennewick that are alright. AquaTropics and Pet World.

Any other questions, shoot us up! ...btw..you can see pictures now. All of us had to go through it though, and it really isn't that bad. Encourages you to post....

 

[kyle.mckay]

I figured the Lugubris species were going to be a bit big after i did some reading ( ironically, all of the fish i first listed were Lugubris' ). Since then however i did find quite a few types of Sexatilis that i am interested in that would be more suitable for the fish in the 75g tank ( Guyana / Reticulatta / Proteus / Frenata in that order of preference )

As for the planted tank, ive already got experience with the plants, but i dont have any with the pikes. After some thought, i think i would rather hold off the plants so that i can get the water / foliage / aquascaping right and keep the fish happy at first, and then swap over to a planted tank in the future.

Saxatilis group pikes are sexable at around 5 to 6"...female will have a black spot in the dorsal fin, and will have cherry red to pink abdomens

Big help, thanks a ton.

They like to pick their own partners. Its much easier to get a group of pikes that are juv. and grow them up together. As they mature, they will pair up naturally and have stronger pair bonds. Then you just get rid of the remaining pikes

The only problem i have with this is i have no where else to put any remaining pikes. I would rather not hassle with trying to give / sell them to anyone but that may be what it takes to make sure the fish are happy.

Well, its a score that you used to live up here peanut and could provide some good references for me to look into. None are too far to drive to to ensure quality fish are obtained. I actually head out past spokane 5-7 times a year, so perhaps i will be in touch with Miles.

I really appreciate the help on all of this. As soon as i get things up and running, i will get some pics up here on the forums.

PS. just to sedate my curiousities..how compatible are Arowanas and Pike Cich's?