Noob to plumbing and sumb, 210 gallon

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
So, I got what was said earlier about the herbie method, but if I go with the plumbing I have, durso, do I still need an emergency drain? I feel like I would need one still one.

Also, I am ok doing 2 return pumps, I had actually though about using 2 instead of one.

So if I went with (2) 600GPH pumps, I should be good...
 
A sump is really just a box to put equipment and media in. It doen't even need to sit below your tank, it can be in another room, or even on another floor, like the basement.
Why do you want 2 return pumps? Matching flow can often be problematic.
When one large pump is fine.
I normally run 3-5 tanks off 1 pump and 1 sump. An extra pump sitting idle for backup is a great idea though, in case one fails.
I also use "all" drilled holes as drains to the sump, but this is my preference. I like as many drain options and amount of flow to the sump as possible, and simply run my returns as PVC over the top of the tank. I also like as much surface agitation as possible to promote gas exchange, so having my return water entering above the surface works for me. This can be a noise problem for some people though.
Like this

As far as wet dry, or refugium, that is also just personal preference.
I prefer refugliums with plants to help with nitrates, and filter socks for mechanical filtration, and put bio-media in bags, for easy removal and rinsing.


 
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I was simply recommending two pumps that make up the total desired flow because if one of them fails while you're at work or on vacation, your tank should still run at 1/2 normal flow, which is way better than no flow. As long as you size them correctly you shouldn't have any issues. Don't use two full size pumps that are just throttled down. This will leave a risk of too much flow that the overflows can't handle.
 
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Switching gears...if you do have two overflow with a drain and return in each (at least as intended), you'll want to decide to use both full siphon, OR, us one as the primary and the second as the stand-by - that may be possible...
 
OP --

These threads always get long, complicated, and very detailed. You're asking rocket scientists how to get to the moon here.

People answering you here have though through sump setup over long periods of time, made decisions, and are giving you answers about how they do things based on what they want at their house.

For example, re-read Duanes post again. He very explicitly said what he does, why he does it, and some drawbacks that others might not like but he's OK with.

Before this thread runs to 50 posts, give us some more info about what you want outta your situation......

Silent?
Easy maintenance?
Planted Fuge?
Fish in the sump?
Flow rate--low flow with power heads in the tank, or all tank turnover through the dump?
No equipment in the display? (That was a big deal to me)
Cheap, or not a big deal what it costs
DIY/Experiment? You want to try several different filtration strategies in this sump?

Tell us some of that, what's a priority, and you'll get better advice from us.

Me, I wasn't interested in K1, I wanted no maintenance and total silence. So that's why mine is the way it is. Duanes has slightly different priorities, so his is a little different. We both like socks, though.

Other guys want Rays and K1, my sump would be a poor choice for them.

So what do you want? Cheap? Silent? Planted Fuge? K1? Cause guys here are specialists. If you don't narrow it down more, we'll all answer and just confuse you.
 
ragin_cajun said:
OP --
Before this thread runs to 50 posts, give us some more info about what you want outta your situation......

Silent? Preferably silent, slight water noise is ok as it is going to be in our mudroom, but I don't want a fountain sound.
Easy maintenance? Yes, easy maintenance would be nice.
Planted Fuge? Would like to have some low to no maintenance plants to aid in Nitrate levels
Fish in the sump? Not a requirement, but I will have 5 giant danios that will not be able to be in the main tank for very much longer.
Flow rate--low flow with power heads in the tank, or all tank turnover through the dump? My first thought is wanting all turnover to be done through the sump. But to be honest, I don't know what the pros/cons would be of each in this situation.
No equipment in the display? Yes, I would like everything to be out of the tank. The only thing I will have run to the main tank are 2 air stones.
Cheap, or not a big deal what it costs: I don't want to dump a large amount of money into the sump, I already have the 55 gallon tank that will be used, obviously I will need to buy plumbing, pumps, additional media, filter socks, etc. but I wouldn't say there is no budget. I just don't necessarily have a number in mind. I want it done right, though. So if it comes to cheap and rigged vs expensive but correct, I will take expensive but correct all day.

DIY/Experiment? You want to try several different filtration strategies in this sump? I don't mind DIY, when it fits. But I would like to decide before hand what the plan is and go from there. I am hoping to be moved over to it by the end of next weekend so I can have it up for a few weeks error free before I go on vacation later this spring.

Tell us some of that, what's a priority, and you'll get better advice from us.

I know I saw where duanes said he likes to use all drilled holes as drains, great idea but that won't be a possibility on mine. I will have to have the returns plumbed to one or both of the 3/4" bulkheads, as I do not want to hang anything on the back of the tank due to the where it will be located. I will be able to see both sides of the tank, so hoping to keep it clean as possible.

I don't have to use the plumbing that came with it, so if there is a better way to plumb, I am all for it.


So what do you want? Cheap? Silent? Planted Fuge? K1? Cause guys here are specialists. If you don't narrow it down more, we'll all answer and just confuse you.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, awesome. Normally, I'd tell you to do your tank just like mine. But, that's not exactly the right fit for you.

I think you could do a silent durso. They put a needle valve on a drilled hole in a cap that covers the standpipe. It allows the exact right amount of air into the drain to make it run silent.

Problem with that is tuning 2 drains in 2 overflows--that might be hard. Also, there's no emergency drain.

I'd run an open sump with no baffles. Doesn't sound like you want to experiment with K1, or need huge bio-filtration for huge stock. No baffles with socks is the lowest maintenance option I've seen.

Quick setup, low maintenance, using existing plumbing.
 
So, with this thread I kind of jumped the gun and while I felt I did a lot of research, I really hadn't done enough. My plans were all making things complicated and thinking all these different plumbing examples I kept seeing were the "standard" and I really didn't want to use a bunch of 90deg elbows and all these valves and things that everybody seems so keen on using. I work in IT Engineering for a living, so I started applying the same principles to this sump build as I do at work.

My goal became higher flow rate, a much more simplistic design and less maintenance overall. I bailed on the notion that I had to follow the original specs of (2) 1" drains and (2) 3/4" inputs. I decided to move to having (2) 1" Adjustable height Durso stand pipes (like originally), (1) 1" open top emergency drain and (1) 1" return.

Bio Filtration:
I also decided to go with K1 as the main bio filtration. However, I don't think I will need the entire middle section of a 55 gallon sump for this, so I am going to run some numbers and decide where I can toss some some bamboo or something bundled up to eat up some nitrates. It is possible that I toss it in the mechanical filtration spot. As previously stated, the bio load for this tank will not be super heavy at first, but I'd rather go ahead and get everything in order in case I do expand the group a bit. I found a pretty decent air pump on amazon that will run 45LPM, so I figure that should be more than enough to fluidize the K1.

Mechanical Filtration:
I am going to go on the general suggestion that I received from most people and use Filter Socks here. If that proves to not polish the water enough, I may rearrange, but as I stated before, little maintenance is a huge selling point for me.

I have already received and tested my return pump. I had originally decided on an Eheim Compact+ 5000, which @ 0 head was 1320 GPH, received it and really decided by the time I have all the headloss from plumbing and any slight elbows or angles used will absolutely murder the flow rate. So I spent an extra 25$ and ordered the Fluval SP4 that is rated at 1822 GPH @ 0 head. And might I add, holy mother this thing is big.

I figure by the time it travels from the sump to the return will be roughly 60" and will only have 1 union and a ball valve, which should keep it around 1350-1400 according to the manufacturer. I am hoping to keep it all completely straight, so if I have to position my sump for my return to be a straight pipe, I will. Ultimately, I think 3 drains can easily keep up with that flow. I believe 1" pipe gravity fed is in the 600-700GPH range, so that x2 and an emergency drain should keep the flow just right.

So, I think I will 2x run 15" baffles in the tank so that I can have that extra 5-6" of space on the 55gallon for some drain off if needed.

This sound like a pretty decent plan? Any suggestions or flaws in my thinking?
 
K1 might be more work than you realize. From what I can gather, I think it needs just the right flow and air output in the chamber to get it fine tuned. You might want to look into that more.

I personally just put some pond matrix in a laundry bag and called it good. That's definitely simpler.
 
ragin_cajun said:
K1 might be more work than you realize. From what I can gather, I think it needs just the right flow and air output in the chamber to get it fine tuned. You might want to look into that more.

I personally just put some pond matrix in a laundry bag and called it good. That's definitely simpler.
Click to expand...

Well, so everything I kept reading says the air pump needs to pump 1lpm per liter of media. I don't think I will need more than 45 liters of media for my setup and I will be able to tune it. I don't mind working with it. I will have my current 500GPH cannister filter and 2 pretty large sponge filters on it for BIO. Hopefully with 200 gallons of water and just a handful of small fish, the load won't be horrible until I get the K1 thing figured out perfectly. I will just have the water level in the main tank below the overflows so that I can use the 55 gallon they all currently live in.

Guess we will see, I have my heart set on the ease of maintenance. I want to be able to only do water changes once a week, vac some poop off the sand and swap filter socks every so often.

I really do appreciate your help on this, I was a little over my head until I decided to stop looking at it like there was only one way to do it and explore a little more. I am hoping to get my stand built this weekend, I bought all of my plumbing and lumber last weekend, but have yet to get to the build.
 
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