North, Central, and South America

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I was on the web site "Cichlid Forum" yesterday and someone tried instruct that Jack Dempseys come from South America, and that all Central Americans are found in soft acidic water, and had some on line site that corroborated his theory.
Even when I posted pics of of me snorkling in alkaline and brackish Mexican cenotes with Jack Dempseys, he would not change his tune.
I was amazed, and then again I suppose not.
This may have prompted this thread.
And Tom (aquanero) I have read those studies before, and reread them again today, although some a bit dry, they are great insight into our cichlid world.

Seeing them first hand is always the best source. I know the Yucatan land is mostly dead coral from millions of years ago, so it is very basic water and high PH.
 
Not derailing, but Mexicans, being geographically in NA ( i mean persons, not fish ) think of themselves as central americas in terms of culture, or do they fell themselves north americans?

You guys know them much better than i do..i only know south americans..

It is derailing,i am sorry.. Just saw this in the cA sa forum...
Sorry.

Yeah technically that is true. I guess when I go to Mexico, people there always say it is CA. I guess it depends on who you ask, but looking it up I'd say it is part of NA. I should say h. cyano is the only native U.S. cichlid.

Panama and Costa Rica are really interesting, because of the diversity of fish.

It is an interesting question - and a bit of a derail, but still somewhat on topic. ;)

I am not Mexican, but I have spent a considerable bit of time in Mexico. I was an exchange student to Saltillo, Coahuila for my junior year of high school. After that I spent a lot of time in my twenties/thirties traveling to Mexico, I have passed through almost every state and spent time in 16 of the 31 states.

Mexico is a large and diverse country, with different regions being culturally quite distinct. The North and the Central Highlands are very much aligned with North American (estadounidense) culture. Veracruz has a lot of Caribbean influence. Chiapas is probably the most "Central American" region in Mexico, both by proximity and food, ethnicity, and language. Yucatan and Quintana Roo are Maya, a culture that predates European contact and transcends borders.

That said, the vast majority of the population lives in the North and do consider themselves North American, at least from a geographic point of view. I have had many Mexicans say that it is not correct to call people from the U.S.A. "Americano" or even "Norteamericano" as that term encompasses all three of the mainland North American countries.

I would be interested to hear from some of our Mexican members on this subject to see if my impression is accurate - Armand, where are you? :popcorn:
 
Great info, Dan.

I know it is an immense country, but would not have guessed that people are so strongly split, culturally speaking.

It really must be unique to observe that cultural division.
 
Dan, the UN considers Mexico Central America:
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm

Geography is funny like that.


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Yes, geography is definitely a subjective subject. :nilly:

I've read that Europeans generally consider Mexico as part of Central America, whereas Americans (North, Central, and South) consider it a part of North America. Every geography text I have seen places Mexico in North America. Some go so far as to include most of Central America as part of North America, which tectonically it is.

I took a course in Mesoamerican civilization in college, a term I like because it is culturally based rather than based on modern-day political boundaries. Mesoamerica, or Middle America, is comprised of central Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and northern Costa Rica. Panama has always been more a part of South America in many ways, right down to the fish....

Geographically there is no question that Mexico is a part of the North American landmass. Economically it is also very much a part of North America. Linguistically it is certainly more aligned with Central America. Culturally it is a hard call to make - Mexico's indigenous cultures originate Mesoamerica (North-Central America?) but the modern-day country of Mexico is much more connected to their northern neighbor than their southern neighbors.

According to the Mexican National Institute of Statistics and Geography, Mexico is part of North America.
http://cuentame.inegi.org.mx/territorio/mexico.aspx?tema=T

:popcorn:
 
You are right, Dan. Iberians ( and i believe europeans in general ) have allways considered Mexico as being CA. Culturally ( not modern way of life trends, but deep rooted culture ) they are part of the latin ( portuguese/ spanish ) group of countries, and we would never put them alongside the US, as we, for instance, put Canada...

This is a fascinating theme.

For instance, " modern" Brazil is much more US in its way of life than " iberian"....
 
Pointed out to a lady at petsmart that managuense aren't native to South America as they were labeled on the tanks. She was totally serious and said they're native in both CA and SA all the time. She was legit too cause she "breeds cichlids". I couldn't help but laugh.


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Last thing you want to do is point out mistakes at petsmart/petco. You will be there for full day and won't cover everything, and the "knowledgeable staff" will tell you otherwise.

I Just keep conversation to a minimum when in fish dept.


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I'm glad you clarified the endemic to the US part, because there are a number of cichlids that hail from central and northern Mexico. Beani are the northern most cichlid on the Pacific coast of Mexico, with istlantum just a little south, near Puerto Vallarta, and bartoni not much further south.
I would tend to think minckleyi, carpintus, tamasopoensus, and deppii, would be considered from central Mexico.
If you go to cichlidae.com, the entire genus Herichthys, is categorized as North American.
Yeah technically that is true. I guess when I go to Mexico, people there always say it is CA. I guess it depends on who you ask, but looking it up I'd say it is part of NA. I should say h. cyano is the only native U.S. cichlid.

Panama and Costa Rica are really interesting, because of the diversity of fish.
 
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