Occupy Wall Street?

[jeremoose]

yes



interesting, because this sounds like you were picking a side... "It sounds kind of ridiculous but if people are willing and able to work, something should be done to create jobs for these people."



i didn't put words in your mouth; i asked a question: "so... make their problems someone else's problems? that's your solution?"



yes: "It sounds kind of ridiculous but if people are willing and able to work, something should be done to create jobs for these people."

were you implying that the tooth fairy should come down and make everyone jobs? how would you create these jobs?



YOU did not. i was replying to your statement and asking questions in a rhetorical manner. i wasn't a addressing YOUR demands specifically. was that not obvious?



it's irrelevant as to what specifically you are calling unfair... the point is that you're suggesting an unfair solution to an unfair problem. that's hypocritical.



something should be done to create jobs for these people.



i'm not angry, u mad bro?

nothing i said suggests that i don't understand what your saying... except where i asked you specifically.




you can't make everyone "happy" . BUT, you can be fair to everyone, there's a huge difference.

I won't get anywhere arguing on all those points but I will respond to the last thing you said there: sometimes (most of the time) what's fair and what's right are two different things. And that sure complicates this whole thing.

P.S. I never offered any solutions, I just said things like "something should be done", I never suggested anything in particular because frankly I don't know. Your solution is to let these people who can't find suitable jobs to remain in poverty, unacceptable.

P.S.S. Are you serious with the "umadbro"? I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with you.

 

[notnew2dis]

I am going to chime in here with a couple of observations:

The vast majority of Humans alive in the world today live in a state of deprivation that most Americans cannot fathom. This has always been the Human condition: Unimaginable poverty, disease, low infant survival, and the associated problems that we see in National Geographic specials and such.
Over the last couple of Centuries, some societies have been able to develop methods of enrichment that have allowed a larger percentage of their populations to achieve material wealth and independence. Whether you call it predatory Capitalism, or Mercantilism is immaterial. The point is that these FEW and Isolated societies, have controlled their own economic destinies, because their COMBINED efforts, could out-compete distant (and otherwise limited) societies.
Thus we see an imbalance in the accumulation of wealth and resources In Europe, and North America.
The modern world, however, has allowed for the emergence of a NEW economic model based on the effect of modern technologies:

As a European, or North American, you are now competing Individually, NOT collectively, for wealth and resources, with Billions of individuals around the world.
And guess what? They are willing to work much harder, and cheaper that you. They see the imbalances, and are determined to COLLECTIVELLY out-compete us.

It isn't ever going back, folks. It's going to get MUCH, MUCH more dire for the people who refuse to see the trend.

15 years ago, I made $150,000 a year doing IT administration. That job is now done remotely from India for about $30k.
I saw the trend in the Industry, and I moved into sales, because I knew that you couldn't outsource that, you still need an actual person to call on a client.
The point I am trying to make, is that the true value of a skill, or of a College Degree, is set by a World-Wide market now.

These kids that are in OWS, think that because they spent $200k on an education, they are entitled to something. Here's the truth: There are 800,000,000 people in India. For every slot in an Indian Engineering school, or Business school, there are 10,000 applicants.
Do you have any idea of how hard these people have to bust their balls? Americans are foolish. They spend their college years partying, and FaceBooking.
People all over the world are working tirelessly to divert wealth and resources their way, and WE are protesting.

Who do you think is going to win?

The simplistic notion that somehow you can force the "Rich" to share their wealth, and that will fix anything is the biggest joke of all. States are the "Rich", even the Wealthiest Forbes 400 people do not the power that the State has.
We are a global economy now, there is no way to cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and become isolationists now.
The State has established these new rules, and we are all subject to a new balance.
Unemployment around the world is about 20%. We are still under 10%. How long do you think that is going to last?

Tea Party, OWS, all the same. Railing against the coming of the night.

 

[jeremoose]

Unemployment around the world is about 20%. We are still under 10%.

To add to your point, I was reading somewhere today is that the real number is actually around 17% because of some factors I can't remember now, lol. I will try to find the article again.

 

[jeremoose]

I found it!

"Include people working part-time who want to work full-time, plus some people who haven't looked for a job in a while, and unemployment's at 17%."

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

 

[ScatMan]

I won't get anywhere arguing on all those points but I will respond to the last thing you said there: sometimes (most of the time) what's fair and what's right are two different things. And that sure complicates this whole thing.

well, government wasn't created to make people happy or "do the right thing". it was created to protect peoples natural rights so that they can be free to do as they please with their bodies and property that they earned. if you want to know more about that, click here. when you understand the purpose of government, it becomes much less complicated.

P.S. I never offered any solutions, I just said things like "something should be done", I never suggested anything in particular because frankly I don't know.

i'm trying to imagine a scenario where you (you <--rhetorical) can make something happen (in regards to creating jobs) without forcing someone to do something...

Your solution is to let these people who can't find suitable jobs to remain in poverty, unacceptable.

it's unacceptable for YOU. not everyone. so if YOU have a problem with it, give them YOUR money or YOUR job. this is a societal problem, so if society sees it as a real problem, society should fix it... NOT a few people in the government that take our taxes by force and spend it on what they please. that's not fair to the people that have no say over where their tax money is being spent.

P.S.S. Are you serious with the "umadbro"? I can't believe I'm trying to have a conversation with you.

but yet you are. it seemed appropriate at the time.

 

[ballinouttacntrol]

Ahhh, maybe it's the quality of the jobs available then.. Doesn't surprise me really. I know a couple of people that lost high-paying jobs and make more on welfare than they would make at some of the jobs that are available to them.

yeah but it contradicts your entire point which was something should be done for them to get a job. they're refusing to accept the jobs that are available to them, who's fault is that?

 

[Lab_Rat]

When did u get a job from a poor person? Less taxes on job makers means more jobs.

Agree with this. There need to be incentives to large companies to come back to the US. Right now it makes no sense for them to do so with how they're taxed so all those jobs and a lot of profit stays overseas. Give companies reasons to bring their manufacturing back to the US and suddenly a whole lot more jobs are available to Americans.

I also think everyone should pay taxes. 53% of the country should not be paying all the tax. Everyone needs to contribute. And while I would LOVE for all my college tuition debt to be wiped out, I realize that I made the choice to attend the programs I did and that I have to pay for them.

 

[Warborg]

can you clear this up for me?

Well... the government is place to keep the country going. They failed with the bail outs. They should have spent the money getting people real jobs

are you saying that jobs should be created for everyone, that somehow tax payers owe you and everyone else a job?

If the government would do a better job keeping jobs here in America instead of allowing cheap imports. US wouldn't outsource the product just to bring it back in here for us to buy

...because that sounds an awful lot like that kid in the video i posted saying that someone owes him tuition for no apparent reason other than that's what he wants... simply replace the word "tuition" with "a job".

With the above said it's still our responsibility to educate ourselves... work hard and 'play' by the law. I personally don't like handouts at all but it also pisses me off when big corps screw us over.

 

[ScatMan]

Well... the government is place to keep the country going. They failed with the bail outs. They should have spent the money getting people real jobs

that's not why we have government. government is created to protect peoples rights, plain and simple.

not to make jobs, feed the poor, educate the stupid or plant flowers, so on and so on... these are not rights, these are things you have to earn.

THEY SHOULD have just given the money back to the people that they stole it from. i think i know how to spend my own money, thank you.

this bit is important: when you ask government to do anything other than protect its citizens rights, it must violate someone else's rights to do so. therefore it's breaking the only rule it was originally created to protect. do you see the paradox?

If the government would do a better job keeping jobs here in America instead of allowing cheap imports. US wouldn't outsource the product just to bring it back in here for us to buy

again, government can only do that by violating someone's rights. that's not fair.

With the above said it's still our responsibility to educate ourselves... work hard and 'play' by the law.

you're right, key word being OUR responsibility, not governments. it's not fair to steal money from one person to educate another, is it? and if you think it's fair to take other peoples money to send your kids to school, where does it end? it's just as valid to make you pay for my haircut, because i want you to. ("you" is rhetorical, not you specifically)

I personally don't like handouts at all but it also pisses me off when big corps screw us over.

the big corps play by the law, the problem is that they rigged the system against us. so the obvious solution to me is: get rid of the system that they rigged.

it boggles my mind that you think everyone should pay for what YOU think is important but when someone else thinks that their college tuition is that important, you disagree. don't you see the hypocrisy in that thought process?

 

[Warborg]

it boggles my mind that you think everyone should pay for what YOU think is important but when someone else thinks that their college tuition is that important, you disagree. don't you see the hypocrisy in that thought process?

Where did I say everyone should pay for something I want? I said instead of the government giving the bail out money to big corperations they should have put it to something more useful.

Personally had the government not spent any of that money at all... I think we would be better off today