Off charts KH ok long term?

[stingray keeper]

Ive been cutting my well water with RODI water to lower my KH. It is naturally off the charts KH and i don't really know if this is bad long term for my rays and other tank mates. Id love to be able to just use 100% well water and avoid the hassle of cutting it with RODI water. Anyone know much about this? I know DB junkie has had his share of issues with very hard water at home maybe others also. My water out of the tap is just under 700 ppm. My GH is very low because it passes through my home water softener which in turn softens the GH. But before my well water passes through the home water softener it is GH off the charts too.

So to be clear my water

Out of well is off charts in GH and KH
Out of tap is very low GH and off charts in KH.
Of course buy producing RODI (i get water with no GH or KH) which once mixed with my well water lowers my KH in the main tank.
PH is always around 7.6

If i run straight water out of tap with the addition of some Seachem replenish to adjust my GH do you think my fish would be alright long term?

BTW i used API test kits for these tests. I also have a high end PPM meter.

Main reason im inquiring about this is really to see if i could saftly eliminate the prep work to produce the suitable water conditions. As is my tank and tank mates are all doing very well eating and growing like crazy; and im maintaining water with 0 ammonia 0 nitrite, somewhere between 0-under 5ppm nitrate. I just have a bit of difficulty keeping my GH/KH always the same and get small fluctuations in PH. I have a 110 gal aquarium used as a resevoir where my water is prepped and sent as needed to my 300 gal ray tank. Kind of like a drip system but the tank is instead sending some water into a drain and i have an auto top off system to add back from my resevoir. Thanks for all comments

 

[DB junkie]

Watching mine change makes me sick. Some stay the same or get a little darker, some go from crazy nice to couldn't give it away. No pups. Lots of breeding activity, sometimes movement, usually never born. I've spent years redoing filters. I've had water bills pushing 20,000 gallons/month. I've changed diets. I really think my water is just that bad. I've addressed a lot of the different variables.

I haven't heard of many conductivity and PH numbers as high as I'm dealing with. I'm sure it'll be several months before I can tell if it's a change for the better, but I'm in the process of doing the same thing you're wanting to go away from. Problem is I need soooo much RO.

I've been talking with another member here about a lot of this stuff, and I think I'm finally heading in the right direction going after the water. Took a long time and a lot of work and a lot of money, but hopefully with the right conditions they get their potential back. If not I'll likely be rehoming most of them to homes capable of making them happy. There's some quality here that needs to be bred. I've seen the pups they've produced in the past and it's a waste to have such gorgeous creatures in the hands of someone that can't keep them happy enough to have them reproduce so others can enjoy as well.

What exactly is the PPM meter? PPM = TDS?

I use a conductivity meter..... Measures in Microsiemens.

It's interesting to compare people's idea of hard water.... Our water here sucks pretty bad. People say it doesn't matter, and the rays will adjust, but I think there is such a thing as bad enough it needs dealt with.

 

[stingray keeper]

Watching mine change makes me sick. Some stay the same or get a little darker, some go from crazy nice to couldn't give it away. No pups. Lots of breeding activity, sometimes movement, usually never born. I've spent years redoing filters. I've had water bills pushing 20,000 gallons/month. I've changed diets. I really think my water is just that bad. I've addressed a lot of the different variables.

I haven't heard of many conductivity and PH numbers as high as I'm dealing with. I'm sure it'll be several months before I can tell if it's a change for the better, but I'm in the process of doing the same thing you're wanting to go away from. Problem is I need soooo much RO.

I've been talking with another member here about a lot of this stuff, and I think I'm finally heading in the right direction going after the water. Took a long time and a lot of work and a lot of money, but hopefully with the right conditions they get their potential back. If not I'll likely be rehoming most of them to homes capable of making them happy. There's some quality here that needs to be bred. I've seen the pups they've produced in the past and it's a waste to have such gorgeous creatures in the hands of someone that can't keep them happy enough to have them reproduce so others can enjoy as well.

What exactly is the PPM meter? PPM = TDS?

I use a conductivity meter..... Measures in Microsiemens.

It's interesting to compare people's idea of hard water.... Our water here sucks pretty bad. People say it doesn't matter, and the rays will adjust, but I think there is such a thing as bad enough it needs dealt with.

I was hoping id hear from you. I guess not too many people have this issue. Sorry i meant TDS. Its Hanna Aqua Dip. They use these for grow ops. I find it much better than the ones sold in the aquatics market. I guess i will continue as i have been. Just a bit more work and not as stable but i don't think its all that bad. At least i can control it enough to be safe. I figure as long as i keep my tank around 400 ppm or so its ok. I do about 50% RODI and the other 50% well water. That makes for about 60-80gal of RODI water per week. Not too bad. Thanks so much for your input. Very much appreciated.

 

[F1 VET]

Watching mine change makes me sick. Some stay the same or get a little darker, some go from crazy nice to couldn't give it away. No pups. Lots of breeding activity, sometimes movement, usually never born. I've spent years redoing filters. I've had water bills pushing 20,000 gallons/month. I've changed diets. I really think my water is just that bad. I've addressed a lot of the different variables.

I haven't heard of many conductivity and PH numbers as high as I'm dealing with. I'm sure it'll be several months before I can tell if it's a change for the better, but I'm in the process of doing the same thing you're wanting to go away from. Problem is I need soooo much RO.

I've been talking with another member here about a lot of this stuff, and I think I'm finally heading in the right direction going after the water. Took a long time and a lot of work and a lot of money, but hopefully with the right conditions they get their potential back. If not I'll likely be rehoming most of them to homes capable of making them happy. There's some quality here that needs to be bred. I've seen the pups they've produced in the past and it's a waste to have such gorgeous creatures in the hands of someone that can't keep them happy enough to have them reproduce so others can enjoy as well.

What exactly is the PPM meter? PPM = TDS?

I use a conductivity meter..... Measures in Microsiemens.

It's interesting to compare people's idea of hard water.... Our water here sucks pretty bad. People say it doesn't matter, and the rays will adjust, but I think there is such a thing as bad enough it needs dealt with.

Give yourself credit for your efforts at trying to give your rays the best! There's not fault in that!


We cannot control your water quality out of the tap w/o hella $$ & effort! Keep trying and I can say you will get a new gen of rays, after all you deserve it IMO!


Cheers :beer::beer:




×Go S Vettel #1 Infiniti Redbull! 3x WDC!!!×
__________________________________________________________________

Cheap way to decrease nitrates and keep your fish healthy: http://monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504763

 

[DB junkie]

Could a water softener might make for "iffy" TDS readings cause of the salt? Would conductivity be more accurate? I honestly have no idea on either....

I was just recommended to monitor in microsiemens (conductivity) cause it was easier to compare numbers in order to try to get to an "ideal" balance between soft water and stable water, and to compare tested numbers from natural habitat.

I have no idea if this changing of the water even makes a difference, but I trust the advice I'm being given.....

I also know I bought rays from someone that used RO water instead of their tap on ray tanks cause it was so difficult to transition WC to that tap water. The rays really seemed to pop in that RO water.

 

[stingray keeper]

Could a water softener might make for "iffy" TDS readings cause of the salt? Would conductivity be more accurate? I honestly have no idea on either....

I was just recommended to monitor in microsiemens (conductivity) cause it was easier to compare numbers in order to try to get to an "ideal" balance between soft water and stable water, and to compare tested numbers from natural habitat.

I have no idea if this changing of the water even makes a difference, but I trust the advice I'm being given.....

I also know I bought rays from someone that used RO water instead of their tap on ray tanks cause it was so difficult to transition WC to that tap water. The rays really seemed to pop in that RO water.

Yes but pure RO water is actually not good. You wont have any KH or GH in that case unless you add it back. Ive been there and done that and its a little more complicated and you really need to stay on top of KH and PH testing and dosing otherwise your rays wont do all that well. Its hard to keep it stable.

Not sure about the salt and it affecting the TDS readings i was wondering that myself. Ive also heard that water after softening by salt is not recommended to keep fish in but i haven't found all that much info anywhere proving that point.

 

[stingray keeper]

Oh ya my tester checks both TDS and Conductivity. Straight well water is 713ppm and 1432 conductivity. After home water softener is 723ppm and 1446 conductivity. My tank is 480ppm and 960 conductivity. I think I'm going to stick with the method I'm using. Lol

 

[DB junkie]

I'm being told that stability isn't really an issue until you're below 200-300 microsiemens and to shoot for around 300. ..... I'm told the river's around 30? My straight RO tests higher then that lol. I've never really gotten below 500 yet. Haven't seen much into the 7s for PH yet, but still seems really stable. Have you experienced any kind of crashes or anything that has led you to run the numbers you are now?

The guy I was referring to using the RO was also using DI, not sure if he was adding minerals back or just using tap to add back, but I know he had a lot better luck this route then using what came out of the tap..... Really smart in the overall picture, less shock to the fish going from river to his water then his water to the water of the people buying the rays, so issues with the rays adjusting happened further down the line and were no longer his issue.

Sure seems like the ideal thing to do would be to pack up and move to some place that has nice water coming out of the tap.... Would be easier then dealing with water altercation.... lol.

 

[stingray keeper]

I'm being told that stability isn't really an issue until you're below 200-300 microsiemens and to shoot for around 300. ..... I'm told the river's around 30? My straight RO tests higher then that lol. I've never really gotten below 500 yet. Haven't seen much into the 7s for PH yet, but still seems really stable. Have you experienced any kind of crashes or anything that has led you to run the numbers you are now?

The guy I was referring to using the RO was also using DI, not sure if he was adding minerals back or just using tap to add back, but I know he had a lot better luck this route then using what came out of the tap..... Really smart in the overall picture, less shock to the fish going from river to his water then his water to the water of the people buying the rays, so issues with the rays adjusting happened further down the line and were no longer his issue.

Sure seems like the ideal thing to do would be to pack up and move to some place that has nice water coming out of the tap.... Would be easier then dealing with water altercation.... lol.

Ya I'm good. Im not moving anywhere. Lol. I have never experienced a crash. When i used RODI and then added back the necessary levels of GH KH and some trace elements it got hard to keep it stable and it was just too much screwing around for my liking. Then when i started cutting 50/50 it became much much easier. Wow 300 microsiemens and id be doing probably 90% RODI water. Id be running the RODI unit all the time and just imagine the waste water going down the drain.

 

[DB junkie]

Ya I'm good. Im not moving anywhere. Lol. I have never experienced a crash. When i used RODI and then added back the necessary levels of GH KH and some trace elements it got hard to keep it stable and it was just too much screwing around for my liking. Then when i started cutting 50/50 it became much much easier. Wow 300 microsiemens and id be doing probably 90% RODI water. Id be running the RODI unit all the time and just imagine the waste water going down the drain.

That's exactly where I'm at..... Running the RO non stop. 150 GPD unit, running it straight into the tank. But with like 1300 gallons in the system I feel like this is going to be a huge hill to climb. Like you said, it may end up being 90% RO. I hope it's not but I'm not going to be happy until I see what results I get from dropping to those numbers recommended to me by someone that knows far more then I do about the water rays come from naturally. Sad part is that's just one system. I have 2 more systems with rays in them and a 380 gallon tank that will be going up for rays soon. IF this works I'll have 2500 gallons worth of the headache to try to maintain. The thought alone makes this guy sad...... Especially when you consider how crazy low some people's tap numbers are. Talk about not knowing how lucky they are......

The ONLY thing I have going for me is the water isn't crazy expensive here, but if it consumes all my free time dealing with it, it's going to be a hard road to justify traveling.