only plants for filtration? anybody else?

[RandomMistakes]

this tank has been running for a year with vering stock and filtrations...the plant only way for about 4 months+-...the ONLY sponge is 3"x2"x2" and it is from the ac70...there is no airstone...tank has the ac70 with the 1 sponge it came with(no carbon, bio-balls, ceramics) and the vine plant in it, a heater, 50-60lbs of black sand, fish and plants...is also has about 4 sticks in different sizes...lakes don't have the flow you are talking about and i change the water every week to 2 weeks at 50-75% like i do on all my tanks...

i feed shrimp, night crawlers, and minnows daily...

I'm sorry but you need to take an ecology class or read wikipedia or something. Lakes most certainly do have a flow (and currents and waves), as well as massive amounts of biological filtration. They also receive water changes. Lake turnover is a natural process of mixing the water column and nutrients so that the organisms can survive (look it up: http://www.onthelake.net/fishing/turnover.htm)

 

[mgk]

The point of the filters is to make up for the extra surface area that would be present in lakes, also in the wild there is much more gallonage per fish, more then any aquarist could provide(well probably not true but not many would want to have a lone fish the size of a guppy in 50 gallon tank(going on a rough estimate)). I think you may be ok for a while with the plants(depending on how massive the swords are as they get huge) but eventually when the fish grow the bioload will be to much for them to handle alone.

I also think you will need a bigger tank down the road.

edit: I am not saying its impossible to filter a tank with plants alone just eventually you will have problems if you don't upgrade the amount of plants and size of the tank.

 

[Lepisosteus platyrhincus]

actually i use plant only filtration on my native tank(and they need clean water!)
i have a filter with nothing in it just to get a good flow

 

[sbuse]

I'm sorry but you need to take an ecology class or read wikipedia or something. Lakes most certainly do have a flow (and currents and waves), as well as massive amounts of biological filtration. They also receive water changes. Lake turnover is a natural process of mixing the water column and nutrients so that the organisms can survive (look it up: http://www.onthelake.net/fishing/turnover.htm)

you missed the point...in high school i was doing colledge biology and ecology...i do water changes...the kinda flow that is being referenced is far grater then waves and lake turnover...if you want to get tecnical my tank get turned over every week to 2 weeks when i change the water and restock the tanks nutriants...

The point of the filters is to make up for the extra surface area that would be present in lakes, also in the wild there is much more gallonage per fish, more then any aquarist could provide(well probably not true but not many would want to have a lone fish the size of a guppy in 50 gallon tank(going on a rough estimate)). I think you may be ok for a while with the plants(depending on how massive the swords are as they get huge) but eventually when the fish grow the bioload will be to much for them to handle alone.

I also think you will need a bigger tank down the road.

edit: I am not saying its impossible to filter a tank with plants alone just eventually you will have problems if you don't upgrade the amount of plants and size of the tank.

i have a bigger tank when the fish need it...the point is that at the current size and mix everything is handled by the plants...i have been adding some plants as the fish are growing and will continue to add them as needed...once the fish have out grown this growout they will be moved to the big tank...

actually i use plant only filtration on my native tank(and they need clean water!)
i have a filter with nothing in it just to get a good flow

finally!! a beliver...it does work and my stock needs clean water aswell...if this didn't work both are stocks would die...

this thread was created to show what i have done and that it is working...also to see how many other people have been do experiments with plants like this...instead it has turned into an attack on me for how stupid i am and i don't know how to keep fish...i keep all kinds of fish happy and heathy with better growthrates then most can get...i even keep brook trout witch is a fish that most of the people saying i don't know my **** can't even begin to dream of having...it is thriving in my tank...along with a white bass...i have mixed things that aren't supost to work and they do...i know that if this failed or will fail i will lose my fish...without risk taking no one would ever have any kind of aquarium...i am not some dumb kid with a fish tank...i know what i am doing...give me some freakin respect...

the water tests that i do daily to moniter the tank show that it is working...

 

[RandomMistakes]

you missed the point...in high school i was doing colledge biology and ecology...i do water changes...the kinda flow that is being referenced is far grater then waves and lake turnover...if you want to get tecnical my tank get turned over every week to 2 weeks when i change the water and restock the tanks nutriants...

First of all, I do not think it is impossible to have a tank filtered on plants and water changes alone, and if you say you have achieved that, then congratulations, it is quite an accomplishment.

All I am saying is that no matter what you do, how many plants you put in, what kind of flow you have, how many filters you run, you will NEVER exactly replicate the actual environment of the fish. I understand that your fish are happy and healthy, which is all that matters.

However, the kind of flow that is being referenced is absolutely NOT greater than their natural habitat. The flow that you are creating is in a closed system. It is the same water, just being circulated in a box. It may be more powerful, but nowhere near as beneficial. You have to understand that these fish are receiving practically a 100% water change constantly in the wild.

 

[sbuse]

i was refuring to it in purportion...no fish in the wild with the exemption of a fish at the spring start of a river are getting the amount of water change that we give them in our box...it is the same water in a lake/river just moved around not drained and refilled with fresh water...there are fish craping in the water up stream from the fish that is down stream...that is like doing a water change with the water from your other tank...

i never said that i was exactly replicating the wild environment...if i was then i would have a self sustaining system...witch i have done with bettas, minnows and gold fish...but i don't have a large enough space to have the complete food chane so i have to feed them...just the end of the chaine is complete here...

 

[RandomMistakes]

i was refuring to it in purportion...no fish in the wild with the exemption of a fish at the spring start of a river are getting the amount of water change that we give them in our box...it is the same water in a lake/river just moved around not drained and refilled with fresh water...there are fish craping in the water up stream from the fish that is down stream...that is like doing a water change with the water from your other tank...

I'm sorry man, but there are just far too many natural processes going on in these systems to explain them to you. Maybe it's been awhile for you since your high school ecology classes, but from someone who literally JUST took his college ecology final yesterday, I can tell you that you are wrong.
Lakewater and riverwater are practically the same thing (remember where the water in a lake comes from? A RIVER!). They are both cycled everyday of every year, continuously. As soon as water evaporates, it will be replenished through the water cycle. It is not like a water change from a dirty tank because almost all of the sediment and nutrients are filtered out by other organisms.

If you don't believe this, then let me ask you:
How do YOU think the fish in lakes and rivers survive if, according to you, they never get clean water?

 

[sbuse]

i didn't say they don't get clean water...i said they don't get drained and refilled...the water cycle does happen every second, but crap doesn't evaporate...the micro organisums take care of them...thats why it is a self sustaining system witch i never claimed to be doing here...i understand what you are saying i already know what you are saying...i just can find the right words to discribe what i am refuring to...on the other hand what i have claimed to be doing and am doing is running this tank on just plant filtration and regular water changes...hopfully tonight when my mom takes my kids for the night i will get her camera so i can get a video of this tank and it crystal clear water...i will be getting some other lights since i covered the back and sides of the tank witch took the sunlight away from the plants...i want to get brighter plant lights...

now when i get my large pond going i will try a self sustaing system with native predators as it will be an outdoor pond....

 

[RandomMistakes]

Alright, sounds good. We must have just misunderstood each other from the start.

I never doubted that your plants are filtering the majority of the water. When I put in some plants in the next couple days, this is my hope as well.

 

[MDK500]

i know how big these fish get and the only ones that needs a monster tank is the jurunese and the jardinis...look at my tank setup for the fish is have this is not my first trip to the lfs...also in the wild there are no fx5s (witch i have), just plants...so explain to me how plants can filter some, but not sustain these fish...please

It's a 55 gallon tank with a few plants, not a 1 million+ gallon lake or a river with constant flow where water is constantly being flushed out with new clean water.